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So-called English Defence League belches into town

If you go down to the Gardens on Saturday beware of a nasty surprise

Published on October 9th 2009.


So-called English Defence League belches into town

There’ll be large numbers of the misguided and discredited in Manchester tomorrow, so watch out.

‘The City Council is working with the police to ensure that it causes the minimum of disruption. Together we will work to prevent unlawful behaviour and enforce the law to ensure the types of scenes that have been witnessed elsewhere is not repeated here.

It’s the so-called English Defence League’s (EDL) demonstration on Saturday. This is the organisation which has held a number of protests across the country against what they describe as ‘Muslim extremism’.

Their protests have often included clashes with counter-demonstrators and police. Notably, there was considerable disorder and 34 arrests in Birmingham city centre in August when they protested there.

The so-called EDL intend to arrive at noon in Piccadilly Gardens. This time is subject to variance as the details are foggy at present as the demonstrators and anti-demonstrators try to catch each other out. The demonstration can’t be banned because it’s static and not a march.

This is the official line:

‘Manchester City Council, along with key partners in the city including faith groups and traders, is opposed to the demonstration but accept Home Office advice that it cannot be prevented.

‘The City Council is working with the police to ensure that it causes the minimum of disruption. Together we will work to prevent unlawful behaviour and enforce the law to ensure the types of scenes that have been witnessed elsewhere is not repeated here.

‘Manchester is a strong and proud community that will not be shamed by a handful of protestors, many of whom are associated with football hooliganism.

ADVICE

  • The city is open for business as usual, although we do accept that there could be some disruption.
  • Any disruption can be minimised with your help.
  • Please be vigilant and inform the police immediately of any incidents
  • Please abide by licensing laws and refuse to serve those who appear to be drunk or behaving aggressively
  • The police are there to prevent disorder and ensure everyone in our community is protected.
  • We encourage our community not to take the law into their own hands.
  • Manchester is a great city and its reputation won’t be tarnished by the minority.’

Confidential thinks these are sensible words. Remember not only will there be fools and idiots among the so-called EDL but there’ll be fools and idiots amongst the anti-protesters as well - no matter how well-intentioned most of the latter will be. It could easily kick-off either way.

One last thing all the English people in the office at Confidential are wondering when they gave permission to have their identity included in the so-called EDL’s name.

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121 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

Football supporter without a skinheadOctober 9th 2009.

I think it's entirely unfair to suggest this group were football hooligans. If you'd been to a Premier League game recently you'd know that isn't really a problem anymore and you certainly do not get groups of skinheads or hooligans. Creating a link is just as prejudiced and ill informed as the EDL.

M30October 9th 2009.

Birds of a Feather (Pauline Quirk?) makes a very good point. The majority of the people involved in Unite Against Fascism are either people with militant Islamic tendancies themselves, or Chorltonites or Didsburyistas who live in their own little bubble. Both these areas not known for racial tension.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

At no point have I 'forgiven' nor 'overlooked' EDL race hate, you'll see that if you read the posts and I think that suggestion is something the facist UAF would be proud of. The insinuation that if you don't agree with nor like them you are racist or a racists apologist. As I said and you confirmed 'the reality was that the police would, on any other day, arrest anyone they saw being so anti-social...but because of the public order issues, they were in no position to prevent actions/arrest people' - so if the facist UAF had not been there they would have been able to make arrests for public order offences. And I don't understand if it was so awful, why you followed it from Piccadilly gardens to Shude Hill?!

CasOctober 9th 2009.

They do still sing 'no surrender to the IRA', which is in now way a defence just an observation.

RobOctober 9th 2009.

Definitely both. And a full scale rendition of The Archers theme. That should out English these idiots.People "tutting" a lot as well. Tut.

tomegranateOctober 9th 2009.

Ah HARSH WORDS Smitty, Brum's alright! I'm not saying I would go back there, but it had it's charms for sure!

M30October 9th 2009.

The EDL are a fairly new group, so I'm not sure where they were at the time of the IRA bombings. Radical Islam is more of a threat than the IRA ever was, and whilst there's elements of the EDL I dislike, there's also elements of the Labour party which I dislike, so any organisation which steps up to the plate and criticises the Islamification of the UK gets my applause.

JaneyOctober 9th 2009.

I just wish the UAF would be more peaceful and perhaps protest in the way Ghandi did...or even just take the micky out of these hotheaded morons . I was takin some pics of the EDL ..and what a truly grotesque and freaky bunch they are(must be lack of vitamins + too many big macs and Stella) a UAF supporter then spat at the crowd and so a EDL member threw a lit cigarette and it hit me ...sheesh..If the UAF want some repect then they should be more intelligient in there approach to their counter protest or they end up looking just as vile as the EDL did..I saw one of the EDL members had 'no surrender ' on his white (supremacist) Polo shirt... !! would of been really laughable if NO ONE turned up to counter demo the EDL .they would of been so dissapointed but why why did the police escort them around the city centre i thought it was a static protest? the police say they marched them places they did because the UAF were moving around trying to get them..so if the UAF were not there then the EDL could of been left somewhere in ancoats out of the way to demo and we could all just ignore them ...has anyone noticed they demonstrated on a day with NO premier league games goin on Proof if need be that these EDL are just footballs hooligans with nothing better to do on a saturday afternoon..they dont need to go food shoping because none of them can cook !all in all im disappointed not many more people from Manchester came to kick these scum bags off our streets ..they were just for a fight and we should of stood up for our great multi-cultural city

AnonymousOctober 9th 2009.

EDL if the charmer pictured is REALLY the kind of people you don't want to be associated with, then why is it that your website calls to meet in a Weatherspoons pub for FOUR hours before your "protest". Will you be drinking J2Os and lime and soda? (A J2O is a non-alcoholic drink btw. Your supporters probably haven't heard of them). Or will you be getting p***** up before itching for a scrap?

English JohnOctober 9th 2009.

B*****. Doesn't ManCon have paragraphs? Now my post'll read like some boring rant. Which it might well be...

ADOctober 9th 2009.

What would you have the government do? What action are you calling for?

east lancsOctober 9th 2009.

If it's static... why not get those screens that were just around the Midland for the conference, and put them round these f***ers?

Bright StarOctober 9th 2009.

M30 you are nearly there. There is only one thing that curtail the rise of Radical Islam and that is for the west to wean itself off reliance on oil. When that happens, governments won't give a damn about Iran, Iraq et al; the only reason why we have gone to war is oil. Once we stop tring to force our style of democracy down Islam's throat, we will get along a lot better. It took the UK seven hundred years to make it work, why are we so arrogant in thinking we can now forcefeed it to the world?

east lancsOctober 9th 2009.

Sorry EDL, but nobody buys it. I suspect we'll see some nastiness tomorrow. I hope not though. But in the event, it'll be "self-defence" right? Bah. Oh and it's OUR national anthem, not yours. Oh AND it's been *well * documented that the BNP and EDL are bosum buddies.

English John the mealy-mouthed liberal (not really)October 9th 2009.

Bang to rights, and all that. I don't have hard information on the composition of any groups but from what can be inferred from all angles - politicians, similar groups, etc - the problem is as much on both sides that there are moderate as well as extreme elements, who all have a point to make, however hard- or soft-line that is. It's probably a mealy-mouthed, overly-liberal way of not actually coming down on either side while hearing that both sides have a point to make. That is why many of us don't have an outright solution but it is useful to see how others view the situation.

johnthebriefOctober 9th 2009.

The best thing to do with people like this is ignore them. It won't happen of course, the anti-fascists will be looking for a fight just as much as the neo-nazis; rent-a-mob on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised if we see "kettling" make an appearance on the streets of Manchester tomorrow

M30October 9th 2009.

EDL, what's your stance on Homosexuality?

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

The EDL is very new,there has been a concern about our intentions but this is purely down to image.I believe that the authorities being anal about what may be considered as hateful, refuse consistently to allow demonstrations.We have been successful this time as our representation in Manchester is just a stand and not an illegal march which is why the Home Office allow us to legally protest our views on Saturday.

M30October 9th 2009.

I still believe that Extreme Islam is more of a threat than the IRA ever was. Had the Plane Plotters succeeded in doing what they set out to do, they would have committed an atrocity which would make Lockerbie look like a minor incident. I feel that there's two different arguments here: Islamic Terrorism (and let's face it, we're not seeing much in the way of Hindu or Jewish terrorism at the moment are we?) and the growing Islamification of the UK.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

Sorry I meant most who were arrested in Birmingham weren't EDL members

ELOctober 9th 2009.

Aye lad - the EDL will claim they staged a peaceful demo but the reason it was peaceful is exatly that - £800k of policing... which we paid for yeah well done lads really well done

DJOctober 9th 2009.

hmmmmIf a gang of skinheads chanting "Get yer tits out for the lads!" as they block the road makes you proud to be English, then you would have loved it on Shudehill at about 5pm - hundreds of Englands finest making each other proud, as they offended pretty much everyone else !!Still - if Sharia Law took over, maybe we would have beardy men marching around chanting "Put yer tits away for the lads" .... just as bad really.

OOctober 9th 2009.

True, but it was screened on the Internet only (outrageous...paying to watch the national team playing the national sport?... It's all Islam's fault) not in the pubs, so Janey...may...have a point !

OOctober 9th 2009.

Bored... yeah sorry to be so boring as to 'debate' on a website designed for debating. Over to you to make us all laugh...

CasOctober 9th 2009.

Your Grandad and mine and many others fought for freedom, that includes freedom of speech. To dismiss that right when we don't agree with it is undermining that.

OOctober 9th 2009.

DJ... the loutish, aggressive, rude, offensive, Nazi saluting behaviour I saw was shameful, and taints the honour of those who fought for this country to keep the Nazi's out...seems hard to argue with that mate. If anyone can though, Cas can...

east lancsOctober 9th 2009.

How can a people who brought us This'n'That be evil?

east lancsOctober 9th 2009.

M30 mate, whilst that was a sad tale, it's not a problem historically unique to asian areas is it? No siree.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

I think you're over egging what you saw for starters 'swearing at women and children'. Secondly we have a police force to deal with people breaking the law, we do not need protecting by the facist UAF. erhaps if the police didn't have to stop thousands of UAF members getting at the EDL, then they could have arrested any EDL members who were breaking the law. Everyone has freedom of speech, it is for no organisation to deny anothers. If those speaking go too far, this country has rafts of laws to deal with it.

tblzebraOctober 9th 2009.

I too have had a look at their site Cas and the tone of this Man Con article means I was amazed to see that they hold up banners saying 'Black and white unite'. No doubt hooligans of all kinds (not just footie) will be there tomorrow, on both 'sides', making the most of the opportunity. But where's the proof that the EDL and BNP are 'bosom buddies', east lancs?

M30October 9th 2009.

I'm interested to hear what the EDL stands for. One of my main concerns is the threat of extreme Islam - which is something of a taboo even to mention at the moment.

philwalkerOctober 9th 2009.

That < br > thing didn´t work - I think I should´ve not put the spaces in between the brackets - oh well, at least you can see where I would´ve liked a paragraph:)

scoteeeOctober 9th 2009.

I was bang in the middle of the protests in the gardens on Saturday my girlfriend did'nt want to be there but I get fed up with others views and opinions so I chose to see it for my own eyes.What i saw was 85% UAF to 15% EDL who were shepherded to the gardens and sung god save the queen whilst they were ringfenced by the concrete wall and the coppers.Then hundereds of UAF supporters continued to shout "nazi scum off our streets." the police were not in any way interested in the UAF and their provocations.There were no more than about 300 EDL stood in one spot I saw it with my own eyes.That said,they were all rough as a bears arse not one multicultered individual amongst them and they did have skinned heads.But I saw no violence or provocation from the EDL.I did see one officer grab the collar of an EDL member and throw him backwards in to his own front line.As far as i could see all the plod had to do was ask.The EDL may not be liked, they not be correct in their manifestation but they were not violent and they were provoked in many more ways than one.I can only see their numbers growing when they are treated like the dogs some us seem to think they.The UAF and others are far too hypocritical for my liking and it was they that cost the £800k this weekend because it was not their planned day of protest. and watching 2-300 would be hooligans doesnt cost 800k in anyones book.

JaneyOctober 9th 2009.

Scoteee...The England match was not on telly it was only on the Internet.....

CasOctober 9th 2009.

Thanks for the correction and added sarcasm. Again I wasn't aware this was the Oxford Debating Society. Have you an actual point to add to the issue?

djOctober 9th 2009.

Cas - I was walking from Market St to Shudehill because I work near Albert Square, and park at Angel Meadows. So I was simply tring to get from work back to my car - although the gridlock i met there (caused by all the buses loading at the Co-op) meant I couldhave stayed in work for an extra 40 minutes...And, for the record, I didn't insinuate anything about being racist - my initial point still stands...... the loutish, aggressive, rude, offensive, Nazi saluting behaviour I saw was shameful, and taints the honour of those who fought for this country to keep the Nazi's out.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

I might add that the inflamatory image of the idiot with the moobs is really not helpful and these are the types we wish to distance ourselves from

AnonymousOctober 9th 2009.

Can the EDL get me a cheap deal on my gas?

tblzebraOctober 9th 2009.

Interesting BBC article about who EDL arehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8250017.stm Scary to find out they have their roots in football 'firms'. Bring on the water cannon! And Z - since when has wikipedia been shown to provide accurate proof of anything lol

Simon TOctober 9th 2009.

Why are the UAF being described as "rent-a-mob". I was there briefly and that description just doesn't ring true. Those opposing the EDL were a cross section of people, many young, and not organised in any particular way. Rather than being "rented" I would say the vast majority of the opposition were folk who felt strongly enough to give up the safety of a Saturday on the sofa and to stand up against the hate-filled divisive politics of the EDL. As for the £800,000 couldn't Weatherspoons make a contribution? After all their Piccadilly branch blithely sold beer after beer to the racist crew. 6 hours of drinking by 300 young men; what was the bar take???

Football supporter without a skinheadOctober 9th 2009.

I think her point is that we're all too thick to use the internet and that the pubs we frequent are not run by people bright enough to be able to wire the internet coverage through the big screen! I watched it on Iraq Goals online, that may be ironic.

English JohnOctober 9th 2009.

It's not as easy to come down on either side.Some Muslims protest at varying degrees to the way they perceive that the world - particularly the Western world - seems to have it in for them (conveniently ignoring the protection that the Western World afforded Muslims in the Balkans over recent years) from a vague unease to downright hatred. On the other side, we have a growing voice from people who see - in much a similar way - their beliefs, English-ness in this case, being eroded and increasingly side-lined. If EDL and the like contain recently returned servicemen who have experienced various traumas with which they struggle to cope, and are left to get on with it by a seemingly ungrateful employer - the government, you and me - then they are looking for a voice to express their misgivings. Couple this with the fact that, as a recent study showed (i couldn't find the link, by the way) that on top of resulting post-traumatic stress problems they now have to switch off the latent aggression that has been shaped by training, and now conform to a peaceful society overnight. The govt no longer cares for these people.Add into the mix an increasingly detached govt and business class who seem bent on nothing more than feathering their own nests and to hell with everyone else, and we have the situation as it is now.Moderate Muslims on one side who want to voice unease at SOMETHING and our returning troops who equally have something to say...I don't have the answers but am just trying to make sense of it.By the way, I'm not EDL, BNP or whatever but I am English and am fully behind our forces.

MorrisOctober 9th 2009.

Or Some Morris Dancers...or Both ??

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

cas this is taken from the EDL website and might answer your question.most of the members were EDL members just hooliganistic tag alongs offering us a bad name which is what Manchester confidential has clearly achieved in today's article.4th July 2009: Birmingham City Centre, the Bull ringI think everybody now knows that most of the Militant Islamic activity in England, and probably Europe originates in parts of Birmingham. Birmingham has the most no-go areas for non-Muslims than any other City in England. We had to show our solidarity with the local people powerless to stop the spread of militant Islam in the heart of Al-Qaeda in England. We are returning on the 8th August due to the popularity of the protest, and lack of coverage by the media. We hope this will be another peaceful protest, despite threats from Muslim hatemongers. 8th August 2009: Birmingham City Centre.I think everybody now knows that the turnout for this Demo was very poor. This was due to the police restrictions on numbers, and the UAF staging a Violent counter demonstration, stating that we were racists, and a BNP front in the spot we were allocated to Protest. We will be returning to Birmingham on the 5th September and hope this time around for a peaceful protest 5th September 2009: Birmingham City CentreWe have decided to stage another protest in Birmingham City Centre again, as our last protest was disrupted and deformed by the UAF, telling locals that we were the BNP, who i hope everybody knows by now that we are not associated with them in any way. We hope for a peaceful protest, but if the police allow another counter demo by the government funded UAF, i doubt that will be the case. Details and Statement 13th September 2009: London The Home Office bent over backwards to ban us from Luton, yet Hezbollah, a Muslim Terrorist Organisation's supporters are due to march through London this coming Sunday. I wonder if we have missed the Al-Qaida March? We urge everybody who can to come to London to oppose this. We will be meeting around Trafalgar square.

OOctober 9th 2009.

£800k (according to the M.E.N) of tax payers money spent to Police these morons. Well done EDL, what a massive difference you have made to the world.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

That all sounds nice Descartes but that would be assuming all radical Islam is in response to overseas conflicts and actions by our Governments and it's not.

DescartesOctober 9th 2009.

Hm, last I'll say on this, but it seems to me more would be achieved if our gov't tried to win over hearts and minds and show the radical elements of all faiths that we're not someone they want to mess with - not because we'll get them back or any such rubbish, but because we're a friendly nation that wants to help the world, not rule it, and that they just don't need to fight against us.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

ha-ha I'll have a word.Enjoy your weekend

CubbyOctober 9th 2009.

Cas - please don't be fooled by a poorly designed website. Like the BNP the EDL are feigning respectability to mask their true racist intentions. I am an atheist and a gay man so I am not exactly Islam's greatest cheerleader but I will still be protesting against the EDL tomorrow. As has been said before the vast, vast majority of Muslims are decent people. There are a few extremists but they should be fought through engagement and communication - not bull-headed, placard waving which can only increase divisions.I'm sorry if this sounds idealistic but we are sailing into choppy times. History has taught us you can't ignore facists - religious or political - you have to stand up and confront them.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

In response to '0'. If you hate it what are you planning to do about it?At present any opposition to islamic extremism hides under the guise of racsism and is so taboo with many local authorities that no-one has any answers, and whilst no-one has any answers the extremism spreads through each town and city like a cancer whilst you sit and watch doing little about it.Tomorrow is about raising awareness encouraging people to take a stand against extremism and shariah law encouraging bigger numbers to join us if that's not good enough for you I am sorry.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

AD- your so wrong,it is a cancer it is spreading and it is difficult to eradicate.I don't know where you come from or your community but i can assure you that the underworld dealings that these people handle are not what any of us want.we are not perfect we are not rascist we want enough bodies to protest so the very government in power will do something about the issues that face our society,we are not the BNP as our members are of different races and faiths and we are certainly not a political party looking to win seats in any elections.the fringe member we can go on about all day but as there is not much of it left lets stay with the basics.We dont want extremism or shariah law in this country and it's time someone stood up and acted.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

Yes, I think the facist UAF also branded UKIP Nazis. Their next protest is against the BNP being on Qeustion Time. Personally I think an elected person has every right to be on Question Time, if just so he can be made to look a complete idiot. The facist UAF don't.

AnonymousOctober 9th 2009.

Cas,How does your concept of 'freedom of speech' sit with regard to the law on incitement to racial hatred?

M30October 9th 2009.

Well the EDL protest has been and gone, but I am astounded by the level of denial regarding the problem of the rise of extreme Islam and no-go areas. Can I refer back to the case of Walter Chamberlain in Oldham a few years ago - when a pensioner was had his head kicked like a football by three Asian youths because he had the audacity to enter "their area" - whilst this isn't an issue many people come across in Wilmslow and Chorlton, it's a very real problem in places like Oldham and points East further afield such as Halifax.

Frankie FenianOctober 9th 2009.

Just wondering what the EDL will be doing about the increase in Republican attacks in N.I? Will they respond if/when there's attacks on the mainland?

SmittyOctober 9th 2009.

Can I back up tomegranate. I had the misfortune to live in birmingham for a mercifully short period. There were many, many awful things about that godforsaken sh*thole but I can assure you that there were no no go areas for little old whites like me.

east lancsOctober 9th 2009.

Indeed, so where were the EDL when the IRA blew up Manchester and Warrington? Did they protest at the Nationalist funeral last week?

Birds of a FeatherOctober 9th 2009.

It goes to show, by the amount of postings on here what an emotive subject race still is in this country, which desperately needs addressing. Personally this melting pot we live in can only eventually lead to disaster if immigration numbers are not controlled, along with the continuing ghettoisation of this country. I find it offensive that areas of Birmingham are "No Go" areas for whites etc. Alexandra Park in Oldham was a prime example of this where asian gangs dominated the area and it did indeed led to the Oldham race riots with a "Them and Us" scenario which should never have come about. It is a small already overcrowded island whereby in a deep recession with lax immigration policies extremism on both sides incidently, will grow and flourish unless more stringent policies and procedures are put in place. Resentment, discontent and violence is bound to follow, everyone is grabbing a slice of the cake, which is not a great recipe with an ever growing population illegal, legal or otherwise. It also goes to show the failings this government and previous ones for that matter. The EDL have the balls to stand up for what they believe in and far play to them in a democratic society with freedom of speech, i think the Anti Nazi League full of its liberal lefty middle class guardian readers could be far more dangerous proposing that everything is rosy and white in the UK and who seem to bury their heads in the sand at the real issues facing this country. Look at them, their chanting is just as aggressive as the people they are demonstrating against! They have no right to try and drown out people with opposing views to their own and is in itself a form of bullying tactic which makes them no better!

AnonymousOctober 9th 2009.

By the look of the chaps nipples poking through his cardi, he seems quite aroused by the whole thing. Which may explain a lot.

djOctober 9th 2009.

Cas - I'm not overegging anything. The "feeling" on Saturday was hostile and aggressive - and the reality was that the police would, on any other day, arrest anyone they saw being so anti-social...but because of the public order issues, they were in no position to prevent actions/arrest people on either side for such things - mob rule, literally - on both sides. But that isn't the point - I don't expect such abuse (at me or anyone else) because it simply undermines any valid point that may be up for debate. I was actually ashamed to be English at 5pm on Saturday....You seem to be forgiving/overlooking all sorts of blatant race-hate by the EDL, just because you don't like the UAF actions....

OOctober 9th 2009.

More to the point what exactly are YOU planning to do about it? That's the worry.

AnonymousOctober 9th 2009.

I'd say, given the BNP's carefully managed bespectacled and besuited image these days, which has recently got them enough "respectability" with a small section of voters to result in a few MEPs with all the money that that entails, they won't welcome their members being confirmed as involved with any of this one bit. If the EDL's intentions were genuine, were they just too thick to realise what would happen if they called themselves the "English Defence League"?

Salford Defence League (SDL)October 9th 2009.

Watch it Chris.

AnonymousOctober 9th 2009.

The BNP website requires careful reading to understand what is probably happening. The BNP is for English etc. and Celtish 'folk'. and they want to 'persuade' others to leave Britain. Do check you genealogy. You may not be a member of the 'folk' The EDL sounds like the BNP are recruiting a Provisional Wing.

boredOctober 9th 2009.

Mr Editor, can you get an area on the site where you can let Cas, M30, Dig, O, Scottee, Dj, East Lancs have a debate (row) about anything and everything? I love the humour on here and particularly LiverpoolConfidential, but there is too much seriousness going on.

DJOctober 9th 2009.

To the nice man in the "England Roars" T shirt - who gave several Hitler salutes towards the Printworks as he swore at strangers... a few years ago now, my grandfather lay injured in a field in France for thee days....he did this to ensure his descendants could walk the streets and not have to see Nazi salutes, calls for deportation, zenophobia and blind, blanket race hate....How proud twould he have been to be English on Saturday I wonder...And by the way - do you know that lions are actually African....

smittyOctober 9th 2009.

jb, if you read the bbc article you'll see that most of them are football hooligan meatheads. Their actions don't match their words. I'm opposed to muslim extremism too, of course I am. As are most people, I would've thought. I also think that the way those "muslim" demonstrators behaved was disgusting - but as far as I recall they were charged with incitement. So the system dealt with them. I actually think that if you scratch the surface of most Brits they are a pretty decent and tolerant bunch who believe in live and let live and just want to get on with their lives in peace - like avo's mam. Who sounds a bit like mine. She wouldn't allow regular IRA attacks in Belfast city centre in the 70s put her off her shopping!

RobOctober 9th 2009.

Could we not hire a good brass band to play next to these guys and drown them out?

HieronymousBiffOctober 9th 2009.

Cas, I think the word you are repeatedly trying to spell, bless, is 'fascist'. A facist would, perhaps, be someone prejudiced against faces. The English Language Defence League would be less welcoming of you as a member.

OOctober 9th 2009.

Freedom of speech is one thing but £800k spent to police a bunch of knob heads shouting at another bunch of knob heads singing god save the queen...sounds like everyone wasted their time to be honest. Not least GMP officers, who by the way are slated on these pages pretty much everytime policing is mentioned and NEVER receive praise on a job well done, which this appears to have been.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

look muslim extremsim is what we hate not islam and muslims,there are some misinformed member amongst us who are pin pointed and unfortunately highlighted (labeled as another BNP).These people are misinterpreting our views and opinions. The sheer weight extremism is allowed in this country is disproportionate to the levies apparent in our want to see us all stay inside british laws. Shariah law has no place here and we refuse the take over of many of our communities as a consequence of weak government leadership.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

O, I know you won't agree with me as you never do but whatever our thoughts on the EDL, they have a right to protest. Had they been left to their protest the cost would have been a small fraction of the figure mentioned. The UAF outnumbered the EDL massively and so their counter demonstration was what cost the money. Funny that as being called United Against Facism surely they'd understand the importance of free speech. The people of Manchester didn't need protecting from the views of the EDL, we are not some yocals unable to form our own opinions who may be brainwashed by some skinheads. We didn't need the UAF there, not allowing people to display conflicting views is facist, and it's the UAF that cost the money.

English JohnOctober 9th 2009.

Well said, that man, East Lancs.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

@ 'another...day', I think you'll find that M30 and I have only commented on the one subject for over a week. That subject has obviously stirred us both and I believe it's called a debate. I'm not quite sure why this upsets you so much perhaps because you have opposing views. Perhaps ManCon should make everyone have a fixed posting name eh?

DJOctober 9th 2009.

Cass - freedom of speech is fine...which is why the BNP will be on Question Time - now they have an electorate to represent they have, I suppose, "earned" that right....But using Nazi salutes, swearing at women and children, verbally abusing strangers, inciting violence and being sexually offensive isn't quite the same thing is it ??And thats what I clearly saw on display by hundreds of very aggressive men, as I walked from Market street to ShudeHill street n Saturday.Do you think the two pensioner ladies sheltering in the doorway opposite Greggs (one with the standard issue OAP shopping trolley) - who were 70 years old if they were a day - really wanted to get there tits out for anyone at 5pm on a Saturday ???Freedom has certian constraints and it is a two way street - the freedom NOT to be abused / offended by fanatics on either side is important.If Nick Griffin does a Hitler salute during Question Time....would he also be using his right to freedom of speech.....no, he would be offending people...which is why he won't - even if he wanted to :-(

OOctober 9th 2009.

Rob... brilliant idea to drown them out with a brass band. "muslim extremsim is what we hate"... what right thinking person doesn't? EDL what do you hope to achieve tommorrow other than to cause trouble and cost the rest of us in tax with the extra resources in Policing? In an ideal world no one would pass by Piccadilly gardens tomorrow and your ranting would be given the attention it deserves.

ADOctober 9th 2009.

Thing is the march in favour of Hezbollah that EDL mentioned is the regular annual al Quds (jerusalem) march. Its been going on for 30 years in london and is in support of palestine. And last year the EDL amongst others turned up and it got violent. Now while there may be people in the london march who support Hezbollah they are the fringe of that march and its a bit rich for EDL to disown their own fringe problem people while trying to claim somone else's protest is all about its fringe members and beliefes - some might suggest thats a tad hipocritical! As to the "cancer of muslim extremisim" its smacks of a witch hunt, McCarthy style, and is being grossly exagerated as a poor attempt to cover anti islamic racism.

johnthebriefOctober 9th 2009.

Well said Cas - the involvement of the UAF rent-a-mob was only ever going to provoke matters. We do not need self-appointed vigilantes to protect us from the far right, we can manage perfectly well by ourselves and if they break the law the police can deal with it. People like the UAF are just interested in starting a fight. God knows what will happen when Griffin goes on Question Time, but I'm sure there's any number of useful idiots planning to up his profile with protests. Why not just let them condemn themselves with their own nonsense instead of giving them validation of this kind?

CasOctober 9th 2009.

I'm glad I now know. Singing IRA songs is not only inflammatory and more suited to football hooligans, it's also sooooooooo 1980's. Have your guys not got the imagination to change the IRA to Al Qaeda? It even rhymes! That's just lazy hooliganism.

east lancsOctober 9th 2009.

Haven't you been listening smitty? EDL says the violence isn't actually by his group, but folks who associate themself with the group, travel with the group, promote the group, that kinda thing.

DigOctober 9th 2009.

An eloquent, well thought out, interesting, witty reposte M30. Keep up the good work.

ELOctober 9th 2009.

I think we should do a counter-counter demonstration...

CasOctober 9th 2009.

Sorry to go on but this is from an official UAF leaflet campaign against the BBC 'It has chosen to roll out the red carpet to racists and fascists. And by doing so, it has chosen to treat black and Asian people with contempt.' - it's just blackmail.

tomegranateOctober 9th 2009.

For the record when I lived in Birmingham, my street bordered on Sparkhill, one of the most densely Asian areas of the city, and I used to walk and jog through there at night without any fear and certainly without ANY trouble. So as Chris says, the idea of 'no-go for whites' areas is definitely balls, and more to the point all in the mind of the (fearful, racist) beholder.

M30October 9th 2009.

I'm not firing all all cylinders this morning Descartes, but radical Islam is something which gets my back up. The IRA brought terror, bombing and destruction to our cities in the 80s and 90s, Islamic Extremists seem hellbent in doing so today.

AvoOctober 9th 2009.

Well, my mum's decided to go shopping in town today like she alwasy does on a Saturday and isn't put off in any way by these guys. Good on you MoVo.

DJOctober 9th 2009.

To the nice man in the "England Roars" T shirt - who gave several Hitler salutes towards the Printworks as he swore at strangers... a few years ago now, my grandfather lay injured in a field in France for thee days....he did this to ensure his descendants could walk the streets and not have to see Nazi salutes, calls for deportation, zenophobia and blind, blanket race hate....How proud twould he have been to be English on Saturday I wonder...And by the way - do you know that lions are actually African....

M30October 9th 2009.

With all due respect Dig, I think you're talking a load of shite

ChrisOctober 9th 2009.

I like the way that "EDL" manages five whole posts protesting his innocent and not-at-all-racist motives, before the mask slips and he says, "Birmingham has the most no-go areas for non-Muslims than any other City in England". Bullshit. What's your evidence for this? Why are they "no-go areas"? Where are the equivalent areas in Manchester? Cheetham Hill is just down the road from me -- plenty of Asians and Muslims living there, but no-one's ever stopped me at the border and told me I wasn't allowed in. I might not wander around there on my own at three in the morning, but I'd say the same about quite a few areas of Manchester, not to mention most of Salford. I reckon I'd feel safer in Cheetham Hill, in fact. Referring to "no-go areas" is the same racist, scaremongering nonsense we hear from the BNP, and shows your organisation in its true light.

jbOctober 9th 2009.

I posted this on another forum .I don't support them or condone them. Make your own minds up.Found this video on the EDL. Some may change their minds about them, some may not. Scratch the surface of the general public and I'll think you'll find there is a lot of quiet support for this group and their beliefs/objectives. Unfortunately because of the PC society will live in people are scared to express those views.I would assume(?) that most of their members are ex-army disgusted with the way the returning forces were abused by a group of (extremist) Muslim demonstrators[YOUTUBE]wkKmzNpUBM4&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

Like i said there are some people who we don't wish to be part of our organisation but we are not afraid of who we are or what we stand for, and we wont hide our ills nor our problems because we want truth and clarity along with transparency for all to see. In short Cas, it happened so we will answer to it not cover it up or remove it

johnthebriefOctober 9th 2009.

Well said Cas - the involvement of the UAF rent-a-mob was only ever going to provoke matters. We do not need self-appointed vigilantes to protect us from the far right, we can manage perfectly well by ourselves and if they break the law the police can deal with it. People like the UAF are just interested in starting a fight. God knows what will happen when Griffin goes on Question Time, but I'm sure there's any number of useful idiots planning to up his profile with protests. Why not just let them condemn themselves with their own nonsense instead of giving them validation of this kind?

DJOctober 9th 2009.

Cass - freedom of speech is fine...which is why the BNP will be on Question Time - now they have an electorate to represent they have, I suppose, "earned" that right....But using Nazi salutes, swearing at women and children, verbally abusing strangers, inciting violence and being sexually offensive isn't quite the same thing is it ??And thats what I clearly saw on display by hundreds of very aggressive men, as I walked from Market street to ShudeHill street n Saturday.Do you think the two pensioner ladies sheltering in the doorway opposite Greggs (one with the standard issue OAP shopping trolley) - who were 70 years old if they were a day - really wanted to get there tits out for anyone at 5pm on a Saturday ???Freedom has certian constraints and it is a two way street - the freedom NOT to be abused / offended by fanatics on either side is important.If Nick Griffin does a Hitler salute during Question Time....would he also be using his right to freedom of speech.....no, he would be offending people...which is why he won't - even if he wanted to :-(

There is an issue but the EDL isn't the answerOctober 9th 2009.

I think what upsets a lot of the public and the reason many normal minded people end up voting BNP is the frustration at an alternative. They want their MP's to say no to Sharia Law, they want them to come out and attack extremist muslims in our country but the mainstream parties just won't do that. Yet any party that has any policies that be considered to be anti immigration, even UKIP, are openly branded racists and thugs. A lot of people cannot forget the London attacks and the even more horrific ones they managed to stop with the liquid aeroplane bombs, we cannot stand by whilst returning soldiers are heckled and abused and we don't believe that their own communities will deal with it as that certainly hasn't worked up to now. So when the mainstream parties ignore what large proportions of the population are concerned by, then you'll gethese distasteful people such as the EDL getting more support. We often hear about young muslim men become disengaged with society and what we must do about that, well the same is true for young white English men. They're are not all thugs, they have concerns and they want a voice.

Another day...October 9th 2009.

Another "latest rants" inhabitted by Cas and M30. Must be love.

ZOctober 9th 2009.

If the EDL are not associated with the BNP, then why does it say on wikipedia that a BNP member created the EDL website.

English JohnOctober 9th 2009.

I'm saying that they are labelled extremists but contain more moderate degrees as well. Paragrapherise? Is that a word? it is now.

smittyOctober 9th 2009.

EDL how do you define "muslim extremism" because you seem pretty much to just mean "muslims". I'm not religious, I don't like many things about Islam or indeed Christianity, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in live and let live. Plus, I'm against "muslim extremism" but I don't need - as you have done on your horrible website - to put on a balaclava to express my distaste for it. I also don't see the need to put in the windows of brown people, as your supporters did. I also don't see the need to come and disrupt a city where I'm not wanted!

NoMoreInsideJobsOctober 9th 2009.

I shall be attending a wne appreciation course , i hope these scroats arent noisy.

DescartesOctober 9th 2009.

I hear you Cas, but that's only a couple of examples. Both (obviously) pretty bad, but as a sample group from the Islamic faith were they really enough to say that we need to fear the Islamic belief system as a whole like we're being told? I don't think it is.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

The EDL, however much we disagree with them have a right to protest their views tomorrow and if anyone disrupts that by using threatening behaivour or violence then they must be arrested immediately. I've just looked at their website and it doesn't seem like the BNP, however the thought of a 'Welsh Defence League' did make me giggle which is probably racist! Oh dear.

English John and not anti-MuslimOctober 9th 2009.

Damn. I was hoping to have made myself more clearly understood: I - and we - shouldn't tolerate any kind of extremism.Good luck in your sock-buying mission.

scoteeeOctober 9th 2009.

Should take a bit of pressure off the BNP for a bit anyhow...what a set of tossers these people really are

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

Being gay myself, I really don't mind, and you?

CasOctober 9th 2009.

What was the cause of the arrests in Birmingham, on which side were they?

scoteeeOctober 9th 2009.

Janey, England football team were due to kick off for their world cup game at 5? Not really sure your argument holds much water on that front

CasOctober 9th 2009.

They do still sing 'no surrender to the IRA', which is in now way a defence just an observation.

EDLOctober 9th 2009.

Our Protest will be held in Piccadilly Gardens at 17:00, during which we will have an expert speaker present to address everybody, and also a 2 minute silence for all of our Heroic Soldiers lost in Iraq, Afghanistan and indeed every war in history, as without their heroism, our freedom of speech would be non existent. After this, we will all sing our National Anthem. Anyone taking part in any racial, anti-religious or violent behaviour (unless in self defence) will be suspected to have links to either far right, or far left groups, looking to darken the name of the EDL, and will be asked to leave.We need to prove, once again, that we are a peaceful protest organisation, and violence would never have become a factor at our protests if it was not for the UAF tactics of winding up crowds into thinking we are a "far right racist" Organisation, with links to the BNP.

BlameOctober 9th 2009.

Maybe his point was that Birmingham has a lot of no go areas for fanatical white racists? Yi know; like paedophiles are told to keep away from schools? Maybe known racists are given maps of where they're not wanted too.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

Hang on Descartes, but saying radical Islam is little more than a buzz word, that is bollocks!We all knock our authorities but several young English radical Islamists have recently been jailed for trying to blow up several planes over the Atlantic. If they had not been stopped, there would have been thousands off deaths due to radical Islam in this country. Lets also not forget the London bombs, it's hardly just a 'buzz word'.

CasOctober 9th 2009.

I don't agree with the EDL, however radical Islam IS a problem. Perhaps only a couple of examples yes, but you can think of more easily. I'm not saying we need to fear Islam but if we all keep pussy footing around radical islam then it can grow unchallenged, we can't leave this issue to be dealt with by the communities. The problem is any time anyone brings it up they're branded racist so few people do, so it builds up and you get extreme groups like the EDL taking advatnge of people's anger. I, personally, think the UAF were the problem on Saturday. Often at the back of my apartment there are far left protests. There are always communist party banners and pictures of their idols like Che Guevara, I don't go out there and shout 'mudering commies', 'commie scum' etc etc as that is their right to portest whether I like it or not. The UAF are a facist group for trying to curtail freedom of speech but they won't understand that.

DigOctober 9th 2009.

The EDL is just a more mainstream 'party' created as a recruitment drive/ stepping stone to The BNP. Just like a drug dealer selling you weed before offering you heroin.

StuartOctober 9th 2009.

If you use Google you can see EDL protesters giving Nazi salutes. They were also chanting 'we hate Pakis' openly in Birmingham. Some of them may be genuine but like other far-right organisations they attract the scum of society and appeal to the very worst instincts in people. Don't be fooled by their sickening hatred.

scoteeeOctober 9th 2009.

Yes janey i watched it myself ...and your point is?

CasOctober 9th 2009.

O, Maybe time to stop your one man campaign against me, it's a tad silly. Of course no one can condone that behaivour and no-one was trying to.

smittyOctober 9th 2009.

Cubby - why not just ignore them? Why cause more disruption to the people of Manchester by going to the counter-demo? I agree with you totally, but think that the UAF play into the EDL's hands and also make things more miserable for the silent, hard-pressed majority. There's other ways to make your protest. For example, Hope Not Hate have a petition. There was a vigil at the cathedral today. Why do we not just let them come to where they aren't wanted, do their thing which they have the right to do and let em go back where they came from?

CasOctober 9th 2009.

Sorry bored, I'm just trying to think how we could have all been a bit less serious about these issues. Perhaps nazi jokes? Racist rhymes? Fascist (thanks Biff) funnies? No I can't. However seeing as you're a big fan of LivCon perhaps you can tell what wit you would have all brought to it?

scoteeeOctober 9th 2009.

nothing to do with the 30,000 rugby fans that came through Picadilly at any point either I notice. they were not drinking beer and none of them had skinned heads?

CasOctober 9th 2009.

I was starting to buy into the theory you may be misunderstood and simply be against extremism and shariah law which is something I would also be opposed to. However I just watched one of the videos on the site and the people who are carrying your banners, so not the tag alongs, were singing the IRA no surrender songs. Get your party sorted out before holding these demonstrations.

M30October 9th 2009.

Are the UAF the same organisation who shouted abuse to anyone who expressed views other than their own over the Euro elections?

Here's your chance thenOctober 9th 2009.

In which case, police your members tomorrow, ensure their good behaviour, and put your points across rationally. Like it or not, if you slip up you'll be vilified.

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