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Question Time with our MEP, Nick Griffin

Jonathan Schofield finds Question Time disturbing, uncomfortable and totally unbalanced - but in the end worthwhile

Written by . Published on October 23rd 2009.


Question Time with our MEP, Nick Griffin

So there was one of my MEPs, Nick Griffin, on Question Time, in an ill-fitting suit, looking like an unsuccessful carpet saleman, refusing to concede that the Holocaust in its accepted form took place.

There he was mentioning ‘militant homosexuals’ (who?) and squirming when faced with views he’d previously aired such as wanting the UK to be 99% white. There was my MEP twisting to distort the truth about sharing debating space with the Ku Klux Klan, and about the true nature of a party that has been forced to change its rules about not allowing non-white members into its ranks.

There was my Euro representative laughing nervously, looking shifty, sweating and squirming as the Question Time panel and audience destroyed him. Whether it was Bonnie Greer, writer and cultural commentator, or politicians Chris Huhne, Jack Straw or Sayeeda Warsi facing up to him, it didn’t matter, he lost every time.

As Chris Huhne said, “You are the leader of a party based explicitly on race and this is unique. Yours are the politics of finding people to blame, of peddling hate and fear against minorities.”

Griffin had no response to this, and went spiralling off into nonsense, referring to the "genocide of the indigenous peoples of Britain by immigration". It was about this time he called me an aborigine. According to Griffin us aborigines are those who are descended from people who came to the UK after the last Ice Age. Because of this we deserve to be here more than others, certainly more than black and brown-skinned people.

There’s more than a whiff of David Icke about Nick Griffin. Remember Icke the ex-TV presenter turned guru who believes we’re being controlled by reptilian humanoids. He thinks up unprovable nonsense and then convinces himself it's all real.

Yet throughout the hour long airing of Question Time there was something nagging away at the brain. This wasn’t the Question Time I’ve viewed before.

This was Beat Up BNP Time with even the lead presenter, David Dimbleby, joining in. It was funny on occasion, it was instructive too, but it was savage. It looked and sounded biased and unbalanced. This probably reflects the ‘disgust’, as one of the audience put it, against the BNP, but in terms of the BBC's lofty ideals of impartiality it was ugly.

In the districts where Griffin has most support, in the estates in our own back yard in the North West, it must have seemed familiar. In neighbourhoods beset by long-term unemployment, poor education and high crime it must have seemed again, that the little Brit, the white-guy who got left behind, was being picked on by the nasties in the Establishment and the Metropolitan elite.

Of course if I’d been on that panel I don’t think I could have bottled up my anger when faced by the weird illogic of the BNP as voiced by this least charismatic of party leaders.

But Dimbleby should have handled Question Time better, should have mixed up the questions more, given us less audience opinion. The one off-topic question was about Stephen Gately and whether Daily Mail hack Jan Moir was right to jump on his still warm corpse with criticism of his gay lifestyle. It was so very off-topic, it was like someone sitting on a whoopee cushion at a public inquiry. Within two panel responses we were back on the BNP.

Nick Griffin, BNP leader, at Manchester Town Hall on Euro Election day in June: he looked as shifty on Question Time

The final question on the programme was whether the appearance of Griffin on the show had been an early Christmas present for the BNP. Some said yes, it was a fine recruiting poster for the party, validating their views by giving them exposure on such an august broadcasting vehicle. Others said no, given Griffin’s dreadful, shifty, inarticulate defence of his position, and the blanket negative coverage throughout the week, it had been a terrible few days for the BNP.

A more pertinent question was avoided, which was should the BBC have allowed Griffin on the programme at all? Well given their own rules, given Griffin has an electoral mandate from the Euro elections, given the BBC have allowed minority parties such as UKIP and the Greens on before, they could hardly not allow him on.

We return to the question of free speech.

On Channel 4 news before Question Time, Margaret Hodge, a member of the Labour Government, got it dead right.

She said: “I’ve had him (Griffin) campaigning at my constituency in Barking in the past. At polling stations he’s attacked me personally as an immigrant and as a Jew. He’s a nasty, nasty man. But we debate through democracy not through censorship in the United Kingdom, that is our tradition.”

The protesters outside the London studios and up and down the country missed this point completely. But then with their Socialist Worker placards they would do, wouldn’t they? The left and the right eventually meet as we all know, coming full circle from opposite sides. In the end if given power both the BNP and those protestors, would want to shut people up, with violence if necessary, and allow only one point of view to be given airtime; their own.

As Michael Portillo said on the This Week show after Question Time, “It almost made me physically sick this morning when I heard Ken Livingstone (left wing ex-London Mayor) saying that he didn’t want Griffin on Question Time.” Portillo went on to describe how Livingstone had wanted public debate with Marxist IRA terrorists in the seventies whilst they were murdering British citizens. More recently Livingstone has invited holocaust deniers, with no constituency in the UK, over from the Middle East to speak.

We can’t have it both ways, so let’s have it our way. The way as a nation we have stumbled towards for hundreds of years, let people, certainly once they have a constituency, have their voice.

And in this way let’s give them enough rope to hang themselves. Griffin was a shambles last night. Question Time brutally exposing his incoherent nonsense. It was humiliating for him. It’s true that in some areas his beating up might have reinforced support but most people would have seen that this comical, bewildered and confused figure is not quite the person we would want running the country. Not ever, even after the next Ice Age, when the new aborigines, or whatever, arrive.

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334 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

I don't agree with I don't agree with AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Actually, I think she's rather avoided the questions I've put to her, and espoused gutter press hysteria as fact.

DigOctober 23rd 2009.

It was an extreme point about people close to you being sent away by a racist dictatorship. I have black family and Asian friends and would fear for them if the BNP were to ever get in power. Not that they ever will. Too many voting, decent, open minded people with common sense in this country. Anyway the point was valid. Not that I'm going to concern myself with comments from any anonymous ranters.

gordonisamoronOctober 23rd 2009.

I agree with east lancs. QT should be about discussing politics and seeing where the parties stand on issues. Had that format been stuck to it would have been apparent that the BNP have no idea on all but one topic - race.

DigOctober 23rd 2009.

Oh yeah sorry I was getting carried away then. The violence is wrong but understandable considering the hatred he inspires. Now I am going to do with Angela what everybody should do with The BNP to make them go away and ignore her.

emma graceOctober 23rd 2009.

And that personal swipe at Jack Straw's grandfather was quite frankly, cheap and underhand. It was like playground arguments. "my grandad did this and your grandad did that". What was he hoping to achieve with that comment????

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

Some practicalities. Mr Griffin says he wants Britain to return to the ethnic make-up it had in 1948 (just before the arrival of the Empire Windrush from the West Indies, which in my opinion is one of the highlights of our 20th century, but never mind). What I'm interested in is how he plans to achieve this. And I'd ask the anti-immigrant posters on here the same questions. First step is to stop all further immigration into this country, presumably; we allow Anglo Saxons only, so this would include French people, Italians, and Jewish people, they're all barred. Maybe the Irish too. Ok, so to get back to 1948 he's also going to have to send some people 'home'. But that's a problem; for the majority of non-whites in this country, Britain is their home (they were born here). So where do they go??? And who decides who goes where first (are we going to keep successful black sportsmen here until after the WorldCup?)??? And to make this 1948 vision complete, he'll have to include mixed-race people too. What about people who have a black grandparent but otherwise are 'Anglo Saxon'??? Is there like a colour chart to prove whiteness??? And if the big problem is numbers (ie. there aren't enough jobs to go round), then do we take into account the number of people leaving Britain and relocating to Spain, say??? Does that mean more people can come in, or is it not really about numbers, it's about skin colour??? You might think I'm taking this into the realms of the absurd, but it's not me that's doing that, it's the BNP with this pre-1948 aim. They're within their rights to tell us this policy but they have absolutely no practical idea how to achieve it. So what's the point of the policy???

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Can we drop the gay thing as its not relevant. I just requested that rather than simply knock Angela's views and Angela that you may present an idea on how to deal with the genuine concerns she obviously has.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

P.S Have a read of the following article on the BNP website : "Immigration: Labour Party Is Guilty of Breach of UN Declaration on Indigenous Peoples’ Rights" and let me know what you think.

alexOctober 23rd 2009.

Jonathan's point that this was a QT like no other with its complete lack of 'normal' debate (education, health, environment..) was inevitable in this 'sensationalist' instance. Further exposing their one-sided agenda requires giving them more airtime tho ..... a scary thought.

KarlOctober 23rd 2009.

I am non politically biased I hate them all equally. I wouldnt have watched question time in the first place if it wasnt for the mov of protesters all over the news all day. Then when I do tune in to see what all the fuss is about I dont see a political debate but an execution. It made me wonder if the main parties consider the BNP to be a real threat to their regime. It then made me wonder if it had all been staged so that as many people as possible would tune in and be put off them. The government after all do control the BBC. In my opinion it was a disgrace and showed all of the politiians to be nothing more than bullies i hate them all even more

DigablistOctober 23rd 2009.

My father, grandmother and grandfather are all disabled. They take the piss out of their own disabilities. I said it tongue in cheek and don't need to apologise to anybody. Well maybe one small minded attack monkey who hasn't got a sense of humour. So her goes, sorry Cas.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

aww Cas Sedition is is stirring up up violent trouble between Her Majesty's subjects. Lee the legal officer of the BNP is telling the members to provoke a few race riots where the non indigenous attack the indigenous. Note the BNP is for people with Anglo Saxon and Celtish ancestors only... the aboriginals as Nick told us. The rest must go. So let the ethnic cleansing begin!The anwer please Cas?

M30October 23rd 2009.

east lancs: That's all very well and good, but I feel that that's the exception rather than the rule. Yes, I agree that there's a white benefits underclass which has mushroomed over the past twenty years, and needs to be addressed firmly with an emphasis on punishment and making an example of those who take the piss (Lizzie Bardsley etc) That's a different issue to someone bringing back a new spouse, and both sets of Grandparents from Bangladesh. These are people who should be told "on your bike" when they land at Manchester Airport with their hands out.

ELOctober 23rd 2009.

Sorry mate, but a good politician, with intellect and reason backing their views, would've shot down the attacks. Maggie for example, she'd have thrived in that arena.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

That's such a failure of logic Angela - what you seem to be implying is that we should only be as tolerant as the least tolerant countries, that we shouldn't aspire to rise above the level of repressive religious states, out of what, reciprocal spite? By that logic the whole world would remain in barbarity.Sorry but some of us are a bit more hopeful than that.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

"We are about giving the white British people a voice" If you think that's what the BNP is about then you've totally missed *everything* that xenophobic and homophobic Nick Griffin has publicly said.

EuropeanOctober 23rd 2009.

Seen the light, Angela: You 'get more out of' Europe if you are a developing nation, you pay if you are First World. Britain, stand up to your responsibility - you can't milk the Commonwealth and then refuse participation. To me, you lot are barely Second World, hardly 'leading' on anything but debt creation...

AeronOctober 23rd 2009.

Okay, I admit it. I am to punctuation, spelling and grammar what Griffin is to British politics. *Hangs head in shame*

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela; you "don't agree" with homosexuality. What does that mean??? You also ask what the benefits of "multi-culturalism" are to Britain. I'd like to ask you what the benefits of "mono-culturalism" would be; everyone predictable and comforming, everyone looking the same and thinking the same, and living in a society that doesn't allow or tolerate difference. Sounds horrible. Give me a world where my 'white Anglo Saxon' kids hang out with black kids and Jewish kids, date Muslims, have access to foods from round the world, have a clued-up perspective on values and religion other than their own, and have a tolerance of difference that twenty or thirty years ago kids just didn't have. For them, the problems of the world aren't caused by people with different sexual preferences or foreign accents, or non-Christian religions, but people like you spreading intolerance and division.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

bloody hell you lot are worse than me for ranting all day! All the BNP are doing is filling the void created by the governments wishy washy approach to immigration in our request for a balanced and fairer community. Until a real party steps in and supports the concenrs of the majority on immigration then these idiots will continue to air their antiquated ignorance. I am done with argiung about it. The BNP will never get in in a thousand Sunday's. Calm down dears they're just a commercial!

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Eh? I thought you shouted down those who googled to back up their argument? Unbelievable.

I'm sorry but...October 23rd 2009.

What the FOOK is Angela on about now? "considering how much it costs us to keep them and their families here for the rest of their lives" << what? huh? You're saying EVERY non-white family costs "us" £££ each year? What? Huh? How? Man you're stupid.

JohnOctober 23rd 2009.

John says..“ I loathe the BNP but have little less time for the politically correct thickos that can't get it through their skulls that "free speech" means just that not "the freedom to express nothing other than the views that I subscribe to". They're every bit as fascist as the BNP ”

"Gossip" RickyOctober 23rd 2009.

What a silly silly immature little boy he came across as. The sniggering at every question was a cloak to hide his own feeling of inadequancy as time and time again Miss Greer had to put points of contention into laymans terms for him to digest and comprehend. Bless his fat round thin lipped wonky eyed face. Only place for him to preach his filth is back in the hills. Main stream politics is to big a location for him.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, Nick Griffin is on record as saying that some sections of the public should keep their lifestyle behind closed doors. So, no more would the LGB communities be allowed to express themselves in public. If that's not homophobic, then pray tell me what is?As a bisexual woman I've got just as much right to hold hands, cuddle, kiss &c a female partner in public as a straight female has for her male partner.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Scottee, problem is their intellectually bereft leader is selling an intellectually bereft political agenda to the intellectual bereft. If they people who are supporting the BNP actually thought for themselves they'd see that the agenda is not only intolerant but unachievable --- financially and ethically. To deport *one* illegal immigrant it costs of the order of £11,000. Now scale that by the numbers the BNP what to get rid of, even allowing for economies of scale, and boom, a finacially bankrupt UK, never mind a morally bankrupt one.

GrahamOctober 23rd 2009.

"Angela"?. If i'm not mistaken that name derives from Greek or Latin. Get the hell out of my country!

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

We can all get saddle sore by sitting on our high horses but I think 'the masses' will have seen last night differently. Griffin was there and it was a wasted opportunity to tackle his policies. So predictable. Griffin will have gained support not lost it.

MissBoobyOctober 23rd 2009.

As an British Asian, I abhore the BNP and whatever the hell it is they think they stand for. However, I'm uncomfortable about this whole thing.The best thing anybody can do is give these bigots enough rope to hang themselves with and I think that was the plan for the BBC. By forcing Griffin into a panel of Jewish, African American and Asian peers you could see he couldn't hold his own against an educated and logical argument, particularly when he has been peddling all the ethnics as a bunch of house and job stealing morons to morons who believe what he says.My worry would be though is the type of person who votes for the BNP does so because they believe that they have no other option, they feel like they are being persecuted by 'foreginers' on their own soil. The lynching that took place that could possibly only exacerbate these thoughts which could possibly strengthen his support for people who think his voice (stupid and blubbery and full of shite as it is) wasn't heard due to the lack of actual political debate that went on. ....Let's hope that my lack of faith in society doesn;t hold any kind of bearing...

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela you have a different interpretation of reliable to most other folks. "A friend told me" is not classed as a reliable source.

Michele HartOctober 23rd 2009.

You're a damn fine writer Jonathan! Exceptionally well written and executed piece.I used to edit a student magazine many years ago. We called it Platform because, at the time (late 80s), the socialist workers were all on a no platform bandwagon suggesting we should not allow certain people a platform to air their views on campus.While I abhore Griffin and all he stands for, my feelings about the right to freedom of speech go back a long way, hence our decision to call our mag Platform and stand up to attempts at censorship. We had many a row and lots of placard waved at us on campus and were even called fascists for daring to defend the right to freedom of speech!Very well done you!

YawnOctober 23rd 2009.

YAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWNNN!

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

M30: heck they have problems flying to Dublin some days...

A PedantOctober 23rd 2009.

"Klu Klux Clan" should read "Ku Klux Clan" EDITORIAL - thanks for that.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

All I can say Angela is that if you cannot see how diversification of art and music benefits and enriches everyone you must really walk around with eyes, ears and more importantly mind closed.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Alice, the first thing politicians need to do is admit there is a problem and be open about it and allow the public to be open about their fears. I made that clear, I apologise if I made it hard to comprehend. My 'rant' against an employee was to show what is actually happening and causing frictions in Britain right now. If you think that the BNP are not getting votes because or radical Islam, you are deluded Alice.

DigOctober 23rd 2009.

'The People' was a generalisation referring to the vast majority of the population of Britain. Or are you too dim to read between the lines? The man can't walk down the street without getting screamed at. The only reason he doesn't get attacked is because of the police presence and his bodyguards. How many men of the people need that sort of protection to walk down the street? He wants to rid Britain of ethnic minorities. If he hasn't noticed he and his followers ARE an ethnic minority as that sort of hatred and bigotry isn't ethnically correct to 99% of this population.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

Er, I think I may have said that quite clearly in my earlier rant cas.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Woefully chaired by David Dimbleby and turned into a witch hunt and a lynching mob for Nick Griffin including from the chair himself. I don't agree with much of what Nick Griffin stands for but nor do I dismiss him in the way everyone else seems to do. Here is a man Oxford educated who actually raises some yes uncomfortable issues which we all have to face. Personanlly I think the programme raised more questions that it answered - and hit a nerve in most people that they find uncomfortable but really do need to address. As for Jack Straw - why all the support? Again on a personal level I thought he was appalling and waffled, sat on fence. Justice secretary? Not come May 2010.

harryf200October 23rd 2009.

The aboriginal Brits - I wonder just how far back the BNP would define this? 100 years? 200? 2000? How would he define the 400 year old population of black people in Cardiff and Liverpool (and Bristol?) and the similar aged Arab Muslim community in Newcastle? Are they also to be considered foreign immigrants? I think not! Indeed, I'll bet they have more of an England base of family roots than quite a few of his white supremacist BNP followers.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela is right. It is a serious and dangerous matter. But will she be joining Nick is 'persuading' the 'non- indigenous' to leave generous grants or not. Do tell us.If the BNP continues to gain support that is what she will be asked to do... at least carry the banner saying 'go home you d..... b..... while someone lights the blue touch paper. I know where I stand.

helOctober 23rd 2009.

I was fairly satisfied that last night's show did what I hoped - gave him an airing so he couldn't moan he'd been censored and then showed he and his party up as loons.I was a bit disappointed they stuck so much to race based questions though, when Nicky Campbell interviewed him at the time of the Euro elections it tunred out he had crackers opinions about loads of other stuff, teasing that out would have been more interesting - after all, we all knew he was a racist and xenophobe already.As for David Dimbleby, he's the reason I don't often watch QT. Does he understand what the chair of a debate is supposed to do? He's never impartial and he always joins in - infuriating.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

east lancs, some of us are still Pagans, and object to the Christian Right moralising at us. However, one of the benefits to the UK is freedom of religion. So we can follow whatever religion/belief system we like, and no-one can stop us. Even winding the clock back just 60 years wouldn't change a lot IRO religion, we were a multifaith society even then. Winding it back 17,000 years, well we don't really know what belief systems existed then, we can speculate, but archaeologists do have a habit of assigning many things to the category of "it might have been for ritual use", ie., we don't actually know what it was for.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Dig, I just looked on LivCon, looking for a restaurant for later in the week and found this from you '..“ Boz eyed? never heard that one. Bog eyed is 2 working eyes looking outwards. Griffins eyes are worst type. One works, one occaisionally moves independantly without warning. I'm going to need more time to study this case further. For now we can refer to it as 'Crazy eyes'. ” Dig, if you can't accept people's disabilities without highlighting them, playground style, then I think your opinions and input are a bit hypocritical and worthless.

east lancsOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, so in a minority of places, some well-meaning or simply misinformed folk are being a bit over zealous with the ol' political correctness?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I wasn't worried about the remarks. Just answering to them that's all.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Anon, I realise you're thick and I'm making allowances for that. I also realise you're spineless and post under anon when it gets a bit tricky but I know what I said and anyone who is interested can scroll back up to ManCon circa 1984 to check. I believe, and that means it's an opinion anon, that he forms a lot of his opinions to suit - via Google. Now are you going to debate or just come in with your incredibly helpful anonymous little tit bits?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

He was unable to answer properly because he was simply not allowed to answer properly. It is a fact that people were urged into asking "provocative" questions and it was just a blatant attack on one man and his beliefs....which he is perfectly entitled to have

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Ah, Cas, nice rant but doesn't say anything other than "politicians should do something", and a rant against someone you employ. I'd didn't comment on "radical Islam" above as that is a predominantly separate issue to immigration.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

P.S £11,000 one off payment per immigrant? Now that wouldn't be bad at all considering how much it costs us to keep them and their families here for the rest of their lives. Think we'd be a hell of a lot better off

Mark sOctober 23rd 2009.

Great articule, the bnp are no threat to anyone the debate we are all avoiding is what to do with the under class we now have in this country. 3m that have never worked that think they are owed something. That fact the government lost control of immigration and tried to spin it only makes it worse, in these conditions the bnp gets support

JJOctober 23rd 2009.

I expect we can all agree that Manchester is a multicultural city. So if these stories about us having to limit Christmas celebrations were more than just tabloid-inflation of the daft ideas of a few confused individuals we could expect to see draconian limitations imposed here. Right? Have you seen Deansgate recently? The lights are already in place, ready for the November switch-on. In fact in Manchester we have Christmas lights for nearly two whole months. I work in a local college with a multi-ethnic student body. This will be my first Christmas there and I’ve yet to see the emails telling me that I can’t do this, that and the other. Why? Because they don’t exist.

FrodoOctober 23rd 2009.

He looks like Nick Griffin

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Scoteee you made your last point well, if only others could acknowledge there are issues to be dealt with!

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I'm neither nasty or stupid thankyou Straight Stephen. Just not as blind as the rest of you are as to what's happening to this country.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

JJ....Firstly, at the very least they should adopt the English language. There's many foreign people in this country who can hardly speak any English at all and the number of children in schools ( which in the area I live are made up of at least 90% of foreign children ) who have very little understanding of the English language as they are not encouraged to speak it at home is getting larger all the time.

EileenDoverOctober 23rd 2009.

Nutcase love... luv is spelt love..

ELOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, I think you cannot see the truth... or choose not to see the truth. I think the truth is that we live in a secular, democratic society, and that if somebody wants to have a bit of a protest then go for it. I further believe the "truth" to be that it's ISLAM which people fear, I think people are threatened by the dynacism and resolute conviction that muslims have, at a time when Christian numbers are dwindling.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Jayney, we're entitled to have a debate, as are you and as you often do. If you find it boring, don't read it.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela the examples you cite are quite false, unless you have a reputable source for them. I suggest you stop forming your opinions from the rubbish the sensational tabloids spout if you want to be taken seriously.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

There are many things but one obvious one, if you keep you eyes and ears open is the diversification in art and music. I suppose a specific example is the Notting Hill Carnival.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Actually the biggest threat to freedom is the shower in power. They have passed more laws limiting individual freedoms than any other government in history, and all done under the jingoistic stance of "The War on Terrorism".

Angel MerkelOctober 23rd 2009.

May I remind you of this year's bill: £175bn divided by 60m indigenous britons equalls roughly three grand thank YOU very much. It's YOUR debt says my finance minister...

M30October 23rd 2009.

Despite me disagreeing with Nick Griffin on various issues (although I'd be keen to hear his policies on transport, regional development, the privatisation of the post office etc etc etc), I think he has to be applauded for bringing the elephant into the room. Hopefully now the mainstream political parties can now engage the public in a frank debate about immigration in the UK. The reason the BNP are getting the support they are is because they're the only party to put it's head above the parapet and say that enough is enough, particularly in respect to immigration from Islamic countries. When this subject came to the fore in the Netherlands, it was met with intelligent debate, as opposed to baiting anyone who dast speak their mind on the issue.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Again, why can't any of you respect that Angela feels differently? Pathetic.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

But your point was that 90% of children in your area were foreign. You then claimed to have proof of this, but the proof you have provided shows nothing of the sort. Your other claim was that increasing numbers of children cannot speak English - the report had no figures on inability to speak English, it only gives details of pupils whose first language is something other than English - which is NOT the same as not being able to speak it, as east lancs has already pointed out. This is where I struggle to respect a difference in opinion - in any kind of serious debate, you would be laughed straight out of the door.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Tom, no. I strongly disagree on some topics with people who I greatly respect. However, I have great difficulty extending respect to folks who would take away just freedoms from people and make them outcasts and pariahs.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

that doesn't even make sense. I've got self esteem issues because I think the BNP and their followers are racist morons? I must have then, yes.

Robin BrunskillOctober 23rd 2009.

Karl, I think that the BNP are a threat and the BBC just added to their votes.

M30October 23rd 2009.

I'd personally be interested to see the results of a referendum which asked "Are there enough Muslims in the UK?"

OOctober 23rd 2009.

Chris, you don't think he was? So you think he came across well?

RobOctober 23rd 2009.

The aborigine comment is the one that got to me the most. Seriously is he that pig-ignorant of his own nation's history that he isn't aware of the constant waves of immigration from europe since the bronze and iron ages? He himself uses the term "anglo-saxon". What a prat.

The Whalley RangerOctober 23rd 2009.

Let's all calm down and not worry too much. The BNP are never 'going to run the country'. They are simply not up for it. The real question is: how embedded is institutionalised racism in our society? How many black people work in the construction industry? How many Chinese councillors do we have in Manchester? There are 'issues', lets face them...

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

I'm white and English. Griffin??? Not in my name. No-one's ganging up on Angela; but you and Cas seem to want to play the victim card, just like Griffin has started doing. You can't start posting on a public forum and not expect people to pick up the debate.

ChickOctober 23rd 2009.

I've read this thread with interest today and so far avoided commenting. It's interesting to see both sides of the argument. Two things however; this country (England) is the third most populated country in the world, people per square km that is. Secondly, I have no wish to sound contentious, but you cannot force people to like each other; there always has been, and always will be, a proportion of society who will dislike a person simply because of their race, colour, religious beliefs or sexuality.

Wait for the Backlash ....October 23rd 2009.

I last looked at this site on Friday afternoon .. I am stunned at the amount of comments!! I agree with "seen the light" and understand Angela and Cas' views. Unfortunately there will always be a split opinion .. each believe the other is correct. Basically, I believe they should tighten up our borders .. and if people want to move to our country then they should accept our culture as we do in theirs .. its as simple as that! If you read back through the comments then this seems to be the views held by many, albeit Angela and Cas are being shouted down by others that have not fully appreciated their views! I'm not for kicking anyone out, but if you want to move here then you should accept the British way. Simple as that!

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Hang on Simon T, I haven't pledged any support for Angela's views. Don't tell me what I'm playing, if you can't comprehend my above posts then seek help. I believe Google usually does it for you.

Straight StephenOctober 23rd 2009.

I found it strange how half of the audience who had previously been so (rightly) appalled by the rascism of the BNP, seemed awkwardly silent when it came to Daily Mail Gay bashing. Not for the first time I witnessed the double standards handed out when it comes to bigotry against race and sexuality. Nick Griffin was not the only person in that studio who should have spent last night looking in the mirror and having a long think!

M30October 23rd 2009.

O: I just feel that our resources are overstretched as it is, and our priorities have to be with British citizens. Are you saying we should just open up our borders and let everyone come?

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

I think, for politics, it is wonderful Nick Griffin was on Question Time. For once, we can see what a diverse democracy we live in, whereby the ugly side can rear it's head - in this case Griffin's - but we accept that because after all, we live in a free society. If one good thing comes out the BNP being elected as our European representative it's this: I'm going to make damned sure it doesn't happen again by turning up and making my vote count. After all, voter apathy contributes more to the BNP getting in than the people that actually vote for them.

rosieOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, you're a dick.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Not half as ignorant as you all seem to be I'm afraid

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Cas: you want a political monograph in a few sentences? I may write something on the morrow. Oh, and I'm unashamedly bi and out.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I do. I have been told from people I know who have been caught up in it and before you ask...no, they are not from the BNP.

emma graceOctober 23rd 2009.

I thought it was horrible...it was like a public lynching rather than a debate. Very uncivilised and I think David Dimbleby could have done a lot more to control the debate. There is no question of him appearing on the show; if the BBC hadn't allowed it the repercussions and connotations would have been quite frankly, frightening. It is not for the BBC to decide who we can and cannot listen to and what information we are and aren't exposed to. So good on the BBC I say. As far as Nick Griffin is concerned, I think all he has done is made himself look like more of a racist tw@t than we all already thought he was. So I doubt that we have anything to worry about. Mr Griffin has quite embarrassingly proven that not all publicity is good publicity...

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

"Secede from the EU? Total ban on immigration from non-EU contries? Repatriation of known illegal immigrants." This would be a good thing to start with and then we can look into immigration again once we've got control of it properly.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Can we drop the gay thing as its not relevant. I just requested that rather than simply knock Angela's views and Angela that you may present an idea on how to deal with the genuine concerns she obviously has.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

It shows an increase every year if you look through past years aswell.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I was wondering which petty person would pick up on that. I thought it might have been you O. And I know you are white and British....with serious self esteem issues as I said before by the sounds of it. Slow kid.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Not ALL people want to kill him Dig. And that's not very nice is it...."the people" wanting to kill him!!! Is that really how people who are against the BNP think? And you think we're scary?!?!

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I think we are in very grave danger of of becoming an Islamic state as long as we have people who are so obviously anti-British and anti-Christian about. And how can you talk about mutual respect and tolerance when some parts of the country don't allow Christmas decorations to be put up and some try to change it to "Winterfest" in case of offence to the so-called minorities while they seem to be promoting the celebration of all other faiths festivals???

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Ok. Can I ask a question? Could you tell me one way in which the British people have benefited from multi-culturalism please.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Freedom and democracy are part of our culture and we are in danger of losing that if certain other cultures get their way.

daveOctober 23rd 2009.

No suprise to see griffin supports israel like most racists.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

Hahah brilliant. It really tickles me when you see someone SO VERY NEARLY do a convincing job of not actually being a racist idiot, and then they unknowingly manage to slip in something like "Who on earth would put a jewish man as foriegn secretary and expect impartial decisions to be made?" - Brilliant! This is a perfect example of why I've got little time for BNP supporters/sympathisers - they give it their best shot at appearing to be reasonable and motivated solely by legitimate concerns about controlling immigration etc, but almost always their underlying stupidity will let them down, the mask slips and an undisguised hate belch like the above spills out.

M30October 23rd 2009.

Simon, let's face facts, most immigration from the UK is generally to countries such as Australia, the USA etc, where people are taking a particular skill to that country. No other country has a system which gets the piss taken out of it like ours, if you pardon my French. The real problem is that all the rubbish of the day is waved through the green channel at every airport in the UK on a daily basis, whereas, one has to jump through hoops in order to enter any other country. The system is wide open to abuse, people are bringing back not only "spouses" but also grandparents from places like Pakistan and Bagladesh. These people speak no English whatsover, make no effort to assimilate, and ghettoise pockets of our green and pleasant land, placing a further drain on our already stretched resources (as opposed to "adding to the wonderful tapesty of a multicultural society") If someone can tell me what benefits giving British passports to coachloads of Pakistani Pensioners with all manner of health problems has to our society, then I will rethink my view.

DigOctober 23rd 2009.

I'm starting my own political party. When I'm in power I'm going to send retired people to Switzerland for lethal injection and send ugly children to America for plastic surgery. When I'm in power I think I'll start with your family Angela. Got to start somewhere. I know you think those kids are lovely but it's my racist nazi dictatorship that calls the shots now. What? Don't you like my policies? Are they a bit extreme? Do you think? Well sorry for having opinions you don't agree with. If you, your family and friends disagree and want to fight back at me for being so extemely prejusticed then that makes you all facists doesn't it? By your logic it does anyway.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

Bit strange - that that's almost the same thing I said to you yesterday Cas. Hmm...

JJOctober 23rd 2009.

Just what do people mean when they say that immigrants should 'accept our culture'? I presume people don't mean that immigrants must change religion, or shop at Primark or eat roast beef and Yorkshire. What is it in our culture that's universal to all Brits and that incomers must adopt and adhere to?

NutcaseOctober 23rd 2009.

Eileen, luv - maybe your friends and family are too scared to tell you but you need therapy.... and punctuation,,, training...

Angela MerkelOctober 23rd 2009.

Britain! Pay off your credit cards or WE will expell YOU from Europe...

JayneyBabyOctober 23rd 2009.

Editor, this rant is getting very boring, can you not get it on another area? It makes it look as if you only have five readers who have no jobs and weird views.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

east lancs....regarding "scumbag benefit cheats".......once again I direct you to the BNP website...click on policies and go to Housing and Welfare. I wish you would all thoroughly check them and their policies out instead of being brain washed by the media all the time.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

What is the difference between the actual truth and the truth and an actual fact and a fact? can we not just say in-fact? Everywhere I go I hear people saying,"in actual fact".

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

EL...visit islam4uk.com It is not from the media that we get this opinion.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Scoteee, some polls have shown the the BNP could gain more votes than the Lib Dems in the next election. We aren't expecting to charge straight to the top but we WILL keep climbing further and further up the ladder slowly but surely until we get there.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Cas, I realise it's difficult to keep up with the nonsense you post on here, but you actually instructed him not to google. As you were.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Until the 'bigger' parties actually wake up and address some of the issues that are driving people towards the BNP then they will continue to thrive. Jack Straw was a joke, as was Chris Hulme. Thankfully Baroness Warsi and Bonnie Greer treated Nick Griffin perfectly making him look exactly what he is, an unintelligent bigot. Unfortunately Straw and Hulme were drawn into pathetic, 'my dads bigger than yours' style arguments. Oh for Tony Benn to have been sat on that panel. Griffin would be in therapy now

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, was it the fact that crickiters wear whites that first atracted you to the sport?

M30October 23rd 2009.

Alice, I'm sure we can get the cost down from £11,000 - that figure seems vastly inflated. Can we not get Michael O'Leary on the case?

Jonathan Schofield - editorOctober 23rd 2009.

I agree. It's going round and round now. And getting silly. I'm taking the rant facility off this story. Thanks for the debate everybody.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

seen light,what a load of absolute shite! I cant belive I wasted valuable minutes digesting all that drivel.

GollumOctober 23rd 2009.

What does an unsuccessful carpet salesman actually look like then? I would've thought they'd be difficult to pick out in a line-up, or even a lino!?Nice piece though - some very (a)cute points.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

You have all entertained me, I am now going home,good night :@)

Straight StephenOctober 23rd 2009.

The BNP are indeed a joke, just not a very funny one. They are supported by nasty individuals and stupid ones. Take your pick.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

absolutely.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

O, Wow. You really do have self esteem issues don't you.

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

I can't see how the programme could avoided being "unbalanced". How do you provide balance in that situation? Invite another few Holocaust deniers, homophobes, and racists onto the show? Show a recruitment video by the KKK? End the show by offering up a phone line for any work shy aborigines worried about immigrants talking funny?

Liverpool wagOctober 23rd 2009.

I'm not Dig, merely an observer. Is it something to do with the football, yesterday, Angela?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Aeron, the BNP are not a joke and this will be proven. It's the only party that speaks the truth about the state of our once great country and isn't afraid to do so like all the others. I long for the day when Nick is in charge.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Hmmmm yes....reminds me of a recent television programme...............

Robin BrunskillOctober 23rd 2009.

Brits of all skin-tone, need to be able to say, "we can't assimilate anymore people, but we're happy for those who have come here and made a postive contribution to our country."I think that this is what most people think. Happy to live in a vibrant tolerant country, but unhappy that we just have too many people for the infrastructure. To let in 20,000 a year is fine. To let in more is to add votes to the BNP. I wish the BBC were more balanced and sensible. Sometimes I think they all get together, smoke dope and sing John Lennon's "Imagine" to each other before Board Meetings.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Yes Alice, I am well aware of that. My comments on here started regarding the article on Nick Griffin's performance on Question Time though which led to discussing the BNP and their views obviously. But of course one cannot ignore the financial mess we are in too. I am not saying that the only problem facing this country is immigration. Far from it. We have lots of problems due to a deceitful and greedy government. Which is why I can't wait for change.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

www.dcsf.gov.uk/…/index.shtml… Go to download formats and click on PDF...page 2

Serious StephenOctober 23rd 2009.

Well for starters as the son of an immigrant, I'd be deported. Is that what you want Angela?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Oh right. So you think that we should build over every last bit of "that green stuff" do you?? Yeah, because that would be really good for us wouldn't it! We need to keep this country "a green and pleasant land."

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Thankyou very much. I appreciate that.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela... ha ha ha ha ha what's going on in your head? I can imagine you sat there getting really angry about christmas cards. What a saddo. They've took our jobs, our women and now they've stolen xmas. ha ha. Don't know why anyone has bothered to argue with you. Nick Griffin for PM? ha ha only in yours and every other vile racist's dreams. Don't bother to respond to this, I won't be here, I'll be rounding up my family and friends and going back to where we belong.. or should that be where our fathers belong, or our grandfathers belong...

ChrisOctober 23rd 2009.

Question time should be a debate it was a lynching, terrible show and I think a lot of people are sticking to the party line that Griffin was exposed I dont really think he was.

Karen HOctober 23rd 2009.

Perfect summary. Terribly presented show but excellent depiction of Griffin as an idiot. BBC naughty but the correct result.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

The "mainstream parties" have blown it. It's too late for them. Too many people are fed up of them and their lies and the BNP will only get stronger and stronger. And I don't see what's scary about that??

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Hmmm...I think that all went rather well :)

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

My view, and I'm sure you're all itching to know this, is that Angela probably isn't as much in agreement with Nick Griffin as she makes out but the more a group of people have jumped on the bandwaggon of pointless knocks, she's got more defensive and come out fighting. Nice to see that not one of you has actually adressed the fact that a large percentage of British people do obviously have a problem as they are voicing this in voting for the BNP and the recent polling. So either acknowledge this and address it or stick your heads in the sand and it will grow. I'm quite sure where the ignorance and stupidity in that lies.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

Do you have a reputable source for any of the things you mentioned above? Specifically regarding Christmas decorations and Winterval?

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

It isn't respectful Tom. However Angela should just leave you all and then you'd all be left on the edge.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, on a scale of 1-10 how ignorant are you, really?

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Alice, I don't need to stick up for Angela I just think you lot are making fools of yourselves. Angela has a different view to you, you are not going to change her mind so get over it. As for your earlier points about her trotting out that she had gay friends, well frankly you trotted out you were gay quick enough and I'm not sure of the relevance of that to her original points. So you're gay, you don't agree with Angela, are you going to tell us anything of any note? Like how you would put the minds of a lot of the working class at rest regarding Islamic extremists and immigration.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Oh Angie, open up your heart...

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Ok, so you wouldn't object then. But if that happened and Pakistan turned round and said "No way" which they would, would you call them racist?

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela the views of the BNP both on their website and the carpet man's attempt at genocidal justification are bad enough without any need for you to worry about a few skin head remarks, belive me.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Hang on, I haven't said for one minute anyone is trying to turn us all Islamic, I think you're getting a bit giddy. The school thing IS a problem and having children it's concerning for me, are you suggesting we just ignore it?

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

1943-45 british support against german nazi war lost the following.and the list goes on Ethnicity Casualties British – Eng, Scots, Irish, Welsh 100 Hindus other Indian religions[15] 1650 Muslims 1413 Nepalese 1500 Sikh[16] 850

east lancsOctober 23rd 2009.

But he DID come across badly Angela. He was unable to formulate any decent answers, and resorted to grinning and laughing in the face of the onslaught. I just wish proper subjects had been addressed, that would've decreased support for his pathetic organisation of insular morons.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I know you're not Dig. That message wasn't meant for you Liverpool Wag. And as regards to football-I don't follow it-I follow cricket. Couldn't care less what happened.

AnthonyOctober 23rd 2009.

My local theatre cannot raise funds and is shutting. All of my local pubs have shut down. The furniture shop went under the other day and i expect many other local businesses will face the same fate. On the plus side, the council built lots of new houses for immigrants and even gave them a Pakistan community centre. I might be crazy, but they might even build a community centre for everyone one day. When, as a society, we allow Muslim women to be degraded and murdered, but, we pick on a white guy, because it is socially acceptable we are in trouble. Oh well, we can continue to give under 16 year olds free condoms to help the Africans who come to this country with HIV. No one will ever resolve the problems while every topic is racist, except bashing the BNP. At least I can sleep well at night knowing France are not racist for giving immigrants no rights at all.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Haha. Very clever Graham. And everyone else...as I said before...I am not saying that there won't be unacceptable comments sometimes made by a handful of people but to judge the whole party on these is wrong. Alice, I have gay/lesbian friends and neighbours who I get on with very well but at the same time I cannot say that I agree with it. But that is just my opinion and I am just as entitled to that opinion as you are to yours.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

No Alice, they would just burn them.

JaneyOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela I would like to direct you to this disabledpeopleagainstthebnp.org/…/Its… obvious you are blinkred in your view of the BNP shutting out what they really stand for intoleranceand hate

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I find it amazing that you yourself have not come across at least one person who has worked for a company that has told staff it is offensive to put up Christmas decorations for fear of offense to others. All I can take from this is that you must live in an area that isn't very multi-cultural and this would explain your attitude towards my opinions as you obviously have not had the pleasure of experiencing REAL multi-culturalism. Lucky you.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

JaneyBabey, I'll comment on what I like, when I like - just like you do. I have a life, quite a good one. However not having to do much at my desk, well I have more time than most. However I also think this thread should be closed as no-one is actually discussing anything.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Seen the light....I applaud you

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Janey, I'm not sure where you've been reading comments like that. All of the people I have spoken to or whose comments I have read (and I've read a lot on a lot of different sites) have not said anything along those lines. But if you have read comments like that all I can say is that there are always a couple that will have very extreme and different views. And that goes for any organisation etc. The majority of BNP supporters however are decent people who are just fed up with the way this country is being run and want a party that will make it better. P.S Do you know for definite that the comments WERE from BNP supporters and not from people who are against the BNP trying to make us look bad?

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Off back then now Dig, it's quite clear what and who you refer to. You're a disablist and if you had anything about you, you'd admit you were wrong to use those phrases rather than make some pathetic excuse up.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

"The only reason he doesn't get attacked is because of the police presence and his bodyguards." But hold on a minute Dig.....I thought that WE were supposed to be the "violent thugs" here? Good job he does have protection from the REAL thugs eh. You seem to be saying that because he has a point of view that differs to others that he deserves to be attacked for it??? How very fascist!

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

I may have lost that in between you calling people's views shite and talking about wanting to slam your balls in you desk drawer. I apologise, what was it you said?

EileenDoverOctober 23rd 2009.

I'm sorry (but not too sorry as I'm not giving a racist person any of my typing time.. lol.. but still being a tad controversial)... but with regard to the Jan Moir article.. I've just read the article and I wasn't offended.. she is not being homophobic.. she's being completely honest and getting the words published from the majority of people who agree. I must admit.. as soon as I read the headline "boyzone member dies" I instantly knew it was Stephen Gately (unfortunate with whoever it was).. but.. and I have to be honest, there is something that is being covered up... completely. I am not homophobic or anything like, however I do find the death strange.Maybe it was a natural death.. they do happen.. maybe it was a natural death that just by chance something of a sexual nature was happening with Stephen Gately's husband with the 3rd person in the bedroom at the time of him passing away on the sofa.. Maybe the 3rd person was in the guest room whilst Stephen's husband was innocently sound asleep in his own room and for some reason Stephen found it difficult to sleep so he made his way to the living room to sleep on the sofa.Come On!!!.... Jesus. This isn't having a go at gay people.. she's not having a go.. no, pointing out that it's f**king strange. Why did all Boyzone members immediately fly out there.. (all members)... we're all missing the point here.It's tragic .. very very tragic and upsetting.. but extremely odd. We are all missing a valid point in that we do live in a country .. no sorry a world.. where money can "shut the ****ers up"... Unfortunately we only read and hear what the people want us to read and hear.It's a cruel cruel world.RIP Stephen... May God be with you and your family.xx

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

EL...You simply cannot see the truth...or more likely you can, but choose to ignore it....for reasons which are truly beyond me. Let's just see how many Muslims turn up in London next Saturday shall we. You seem to be suggesting that Islamification of the UK is only wanted by a handful. Watch and learn.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Alice, I made my views clear, there needs to be full open debate started by the politicians. It should be the country that decides what to do, we're a democracy. If you can't understand what I've said then either I haven't been as clear as I think or you're just a bit ignorant. Anyway what on Earth does IRO mean?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I'm afraid Alice that if I wish to disagree with it I am perfectly entitled to disagree with it. And it wasn't a "tactic." I was simply stating a fact.

M30October 23rd 2009.

Alice: Do Ryanair fly to Mogadishu?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I did see Panorama and yes, it was vile. But it had nothing whatsoever to do with the BNP. It was just broadcast at a very apt time as part of a plot to try and destroy support for them. I am waiting to see Panorama or any other programme though show the racism that whites have to put up with in some areas of this country. It is always so very one-sided to make us look like the bad ones all the time and therefore very unfair. Oh, and you may not be religious but I happen to want to keep Christmas, Easter etc. Whether you like it or not Britain is a Christian country and it should be kept that way. Or maybe you would prefer it to be an Islamic state? If that's the case why don't you join in with the march for Sharia Law in London next week? I suppose you don't mind about that do you?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Alice, Your comment..."No-one has the right to force religion/lifestyle on others." This takes me back yet again to the way in which we ARE having religion and lifestyles from other cultures forced upon us. What do you think about the march that's taking place in London next Saturday that is demanding Sharia Law in this country and ultimately for Britain to become an Islamic state? And tomegranate, same question to you? Yes, to be hopeful is wonderful but I'm afraid you will be disappointed in the end.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Tom, don't talk rubbish at me mate. You have ganged up like a pack of wolves with the less sharp ones trying to pick the bones at the end. Again, give it a rest and go and have a beer, I am.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

JJ....so your place of work hasn't enforced this....good. But the fact is that although it may not be rife it IS still enforced in some work places which is wrong

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

And 'public enquiry' should read 'public inquiry.'

east lancsOctober 23rd 2009.

We are in no danger whatosever of adopting Sharia law. It will not happen. Furthermore, we will not be losing Christmas, nor Easter. We will not become an Islamic state. Britain is only nominally a christian country, and only by tradition. We're a secular nation, and THAT is something to be proud of. We should have mutual respect and tolerance, but alas religion has become militantly politicised.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Over the years I've worked in Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, amongst other places, and never has anyone made a fuss over Christmas decorations, or claimed that they were offensive. Multi-culturalism is not about dumbing everything down to a single bland celebrate nothing for fear of causing offence, but allows celebration of the individual beliefs of all.

JJOctober 23rd 2009.

I agree that learning the English language is important, though as a rubbish linguist myself I recognise that this is not always easy. By the way, the figures you directed people to, Angela, show a small rise in the number of ethnic minority pupils and also a small rise in the number of pupils for whom English is not the first language. They do not show how many cannot speak English at all. Apart from language what else is meant by 'accept our culture'?

FinnOctober 23rd 2009.

Rachel, oddly enough you're right in that the man is a fool but you're wrong in your facts. Gaelic is a young language in that time scale. The Celts were incomers like the all of us. They arrived about at the most seven hundred years before the Romans. We're a ba****d race of immigrants - the so-called Celtic nations of Irish, Welsh and North Western Scots forget that they must have chased some other buggers off.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I don't have any credit cards to pay off thankyou. So that was a pointless comment wasn't it. I shall store it with the rest of them.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

"Angela, you're a dick.” - is spot on - no point arguing with a BNP supporting bigot. She probably thinks there's too many black keys on a piano. Janey - if people are coming across as jobless weirdos, it's probably because a black man took their job, you know that old chestnut. So if you vote for the BNP, Griffin will chuck all the foreigners out and all the lazy, no mark, non working, benefit cheating, greggs pasty eating, Jeremy Kyle guest looking, white indeginous British will all suddenly take on the jobs that they've left behind. I think not. (I'm white by the way before anyone starts).

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

There are two points to deal with on *legal* immigration --- from within the EU and from without. From within the EU there is nothing we can do about it whilst part of the EU. Should we withdraw from the EU? No. as the benefits outweigh the disbenefits. From outwith the EU, we already require work permits and they are not that easy to obtain, but we could increase the cost to business of them and tighten up the requirements. *Illegal* immigration --- improvements in border controls, harsher penalties for those caught people trafficking. People trafficking is something that has to be dealt with on an EU wide scale it's not something that we can deal with alone. IOW, we have to work with other countries in order for illegal immigrants getting here and becoming illegal immigrants in the forst place.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Jayney, even if we were jobless with "weird views" it doesn't make us any less entitled to talk about something than anyone else. As Cas said, if you are bored then don't read it.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

That doesn't back up either of your points. Try again.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

ANGEAL, add to that list people who mis-spell their own name. Of course it's not how I view all white British people, slow kid, as I'm white and British myself.

DigOctober 23rd 2009.

Sunday Mirror. Nick Griffins mother in law says he has never done a proper days work in his life since he left Cambridge as he believed it would interfere with him achieving his vision of an all white Britain. So a Cambridge educated, non working, National Front activist, now racist party leader considers himself a man of the people. I don't know if Griffin has noticed but whenever he goes anywhere 'the people' want to kill him.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela: What "sounds fair enough"?

ChickOctober 23rd 2009.

From Sky News; "More than a fifth of voters would consider voting for the British National Party according to the first opinion poll taken since the controversial appearance of Nick Griffin on Question Time.Taken in the hours after Mr Griffin's appearance, the YouGov poll for The Daily Telegraph found 22% of voters would seriously consider voting BNP in a future local, general or European election." Which is why the mainstream parties need a wake-up call. This is exactly what the BNP hoped would happen, whether it translates into votes in May is another matter. Nick Griffin is a vile, homophobic, racist, cretin but 22% is more than would currently vote for the LibDems. Scary thought IMO

AlfieOctober 23rd 2009.

Alfie says..“ As much as I hated the hideous little bigoted gargoyle Griffin.. When asked about the Gately/Sunday Mail debate one of the few none immigration questions ..It became apparent that Sayeeda Warsi was a campaigner against gay marriage and thus a homophobe!! ”

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

I think they should put Google down, appreciate not everything agrees with them and look at the hypocrisy of what they're doing. But they won't, they'll carry on all night.......

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

That was said about the schools in my area. How do you want me to prove it to you?

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Cas "the less sharp ones" that'd be the ones defending the indefensible stance of the BNP then.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

I don't hate anyone, let alone white or British people. I'll leave the hate to you and the rest of your mates with skin heads. You carry on thinking about all of those xmas (sorry I mean Christmas) decorations that will be banned in a few weeks or your church being turned into a mosque or whatever other concerns you've got. Hopefully you'll get that mad you'll implode. Bye.

stretfordpotterOctober 23rd 2009.

Get a new proof reader! 'the true nature of a party which has being forced to change its rules about not allowing white members in its ranks. 'EDITORIAL: well spotted, now changed, writing under pressure eh?

Serious StephenOctober 23rd 2009.

Take a train journey. That green stuff is grass, loads of it... fields, sloping hills...tons of it. We are certainly not "overcrowded". Returning to Manchester from places like New York, London or Paris, you see what a small city it is. We are not overcrowded at all.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Perhaps Angela lives in Bradford?: "At Princeville Primary School, off Legrams Lane, just seven of the school’s 453 children are naturally English speakers – the smallest proportion of pupils with English as their first language at any primary school in the district. Fifteen other languages, including Vietnamese, Bosnian and Gujarati, are spoken by pupils with the most common first language being Punjabi. " MP Philip Davies said “How do you teach a child when it cannot speak English? Teachers are in an impossible situation. Unless we see some transformation we will end up with a situation where children are sent to separate schools to learn English. “We cannot have other children held back because so much time and effort is being spent learning basic things that they should know already.” And don't come back with the 'well that isn't 90% can't speak English' crap because this is a problem and by not recognising it and choosing to indulge in your childish arguing style instead, you're not helping anyone as the person above states.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Dig, you're an idiot and not helping your cause. Grow up.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

You're missing the point. We don't want to "stamp down" on anyone. We are about giving the white British people a voice. Something that we've not had for a very long time. And I still can't see the problem with that?

Ross JohnsonOctober 23rd 2009.

Jonathan has it right wih Nick's worrying and disturbing views. he is also right in being concerned about the unbalanced nature of the show and the universal onslaught that Nick endured. Contrary to Jonathan's interpretation and, again worryingly, I did not find that Nick was weak and did not perform well under the circumstancesWhat caused more concern and Jonathan does not touch on it was the inept performance of Jack Straw, a government minister. His opening speech meandered and failed completely to get anywhere near answering the question. He was clearly exposed as being in complete denial of the legitimate concerns of anyone relating to levels of immigration and comes across as more dangerous with his blind mission of leaving the UK open to whatever levels of immigration, whatever the numbers and the impact( I won't raise the drawbridge) He was exactly the same when interviewing a woman whose child had been murdered by a dangerous criminal released early from jail as per his arrangements. His eyes glazed over and he smiled(in a similar way to Nick last night)

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

I should also add that the major issues facing the UK at present aren't anything to to with multi-culturalism or immigration (illegal or otherwise), but as a result of financial mismanagement by major finance houses worldwide.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, and where is this data available, and saying form the schools is not the right answer. Pointing at a report in print or on the web though would be.

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

See the rant above starting 'we the indigenous people' Been there done that.

ELOctober 23rd 2009.

Anthony, sorry mate but that's the kind of flawed logic which only serves to fuel hatred; the closure of your local theatre, pub, and furniture shop is entirely unrelated to the opening of a COMMUNITY centre. I do actually agree that Griffin does address some uncomfortable - yet important - issues, but his motives are entirely repugnent to anyone with a brain.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

M30, if you are concerned with health problems within society, look no further than the millions of pounds of tax payers money spent on the white 'indeginous' people that drain the NHS from boozing, smoking and clogging up their artieries by eating too much egg and chips for tea. You sound like a Nazi making a scapegoat out of a jew in hard times.

DescartesOctober 23rd 2009.

I don't like the guy, can't stand the bnp, but the most important part of living in a free society is defending the right to speak of those we find the most obnoxious, and if the BBC hadn't allowed him to appear it would have been censorship.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Good riddance Dig. O...if you think Nck Griffin has no chance you're mistaken. Alice, us being part of the EU is largely to blame for the problems we face now.

AeronOctober 23rd 2009.

One question: I arrived in this green and pleasant land during the last ice age but I was abused by a polar bear and it turned me gay. I'm just wondering where I will be sent under a BNP government. Please don't send me to the Arctic, Nick. Don't be fooled by their fur colour, those bears are proper nasty! (I'm sorry if I'm trivialising this but the guy's a joke, as is his party.)

robcmarOctober 23rd 2009.

I thought the BBC/David Dimbleby handled the situation just right.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I don't want or need to play the poor misunderstood victim. And I don't think my position has been poorly argued either for that matter.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I suppose I thought you might have been able to provide a better example. Obviousy not. It did make me laugh though so thanks for that. I can now rest easy knowing that at least we have Notting Hill Carnival. When I'm hearing of the many many problems this country is facing I can sit back and relax...knowing that I can go to the carnival and all my worries will just fade away.....

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Understandable violence? Tut tut. Bye Dig

levi rootsOctober 23rd 2009.

Com' have some of my haat reggae sauce!

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I am the last person who would believe what the media says. I have seen enough evidence from Muslim sites etc and that is where my opinion comes from. And I say so-called minorities because where I live I certainly don't feel part of the "majority!"

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Homophobia.."Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men." Nope, I do not fear or have contempt for gay people. Just don't agree with it. What's wrong with that?

Angela MerkelOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela, pay off your credit card and stop moaning!

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

It doesn't say whether the talented black sportsmen will be shipped back 'home' before or after the World Cup or even the Olympic Games (2012). I really wonder whether you can bear to have people of a different religion or skin colour in your street for that long? C'mon BNP sort it out.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Ok,Cas you want to put me on the spot. You've not put *your* view as to what should be done up for scrutiny other than "politicians should be doing something".So, I think it only fair that you also state what you think politicians should be doing.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

Robajob you scamp, I got all the way to the end of your first post before I twigged you were joking! Thanks for the blood pressure increase.

RachelOctober 23rd 2009.

well said - Bonnie Greer for PM, anyone?

M30October 23rd 2009.

Seen the Light: You had me nodding my head in complete agreement until your mad ramble about Jews and getting out of the EU.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Ah, Cas, so your ideas for dealing with it are "politicians should do something". Also, stop telling me what I think, because *you* don't know what I think, and nowhere here have I commented IRO my thoughts as to where the support for the BNP is coming from.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

Ah, the marching out of the "I've got gay friends" card --- a tactic that is used frequently by homophobes as a means of excusing their homophobia. It is not for you to agree or disagree with homosexuality, it is a natural part of human sexuality; you just have to accept it.

ELOctober 23rd 2009.

okay but whats that got to do with political correctness at xmas?

east lancsOctober 23rd 2009.

I can indeed see where you're coming from. But I disagree entirely that "white english" are put to the back of the queue, I mean... what queue precisely? If you saw Panorama last week, you'll have seen us English at our very worst - I don't think the BNP does anything to help this. Further, what traditions and religion (I'm intelligent enough to be agnostic so I don't care about Christianity) are being threatened? Morris Dancing? I do admit though that (if the tabloids are to believed) we're pandering to some fairly worrying aspects of Islam.

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

There are some lovely churches and cathedrals in Pakistan. I recommend you visit the Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul in Faisalabad, for example; it's very much part of the local community and has strong links with the local mosque.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

So is strongly disagreeing with someone disrespectful in itself??

ADOctober 23rd 2009.

Seen the light your views are discusting. Your suggestion that government ministers with jewish backgrounds are simply furthering their own interests, or jewish interests against the better needs of the indiginous christian majority in the country could be taken straight from the pages of Mein Kampf. you should be ashamed of yourself.

IainOctober 23rd 2009.

What a well written article. Throughout all the biased reports in newspapers and from commentators whether it be from one side or another, no-one has really looked at it from an objective opinion quite like this article. Nick Griffin clearly has some very unsavoury political ideologies but by the same time it was a very unbalanced show. Why did the BBC entertain Griffin? To convey impartiality quite rightly. So, why then was the whole show dedicated to bashing him on pointless topics when i'd far rather hear what Jack Straw thought about the postal strike or what Chris Huhne's views were on the war in Afghanistan. A very well written article though.

Simon TOctober 23rd 2009.

I wouldn't object to people building churches in Pakistan, why would I??? Multi-culturalism is a good thing, that's what I maintain. And the scenario I'm describing is not only "lovely", it's the reality for me and my family. I'm proud of my kids and their mates. They're a living lesson to us all; they see Griffin on the TV, and they just think, in their words, WTF?!

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Nice to know you think of it all as one big joke O. Churches being turned into mosques isn't in the slightest bit amusing to me. Why don't you convert to Islam? If you haven't already. Oh and the skin head remark...oh dear. Such a media inspired view you have of us.

ADOctober 23rd 2009.

so some imigrants dont learn english or teach it to their children. Its poor on their part but its not a threat to the nation is it? and its not all part of some plot to turn us all islamic, because of all of the evidence above shows its an issue for imigrants of all religous and cultural backgrounds. I think some people have this a little out of proportion.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

M30, that £11,000 is a Home Office estimate. But bring in a private contractor I'm sure it'd come right down. But seriously we can't actually afford to deport the number of illegal immigrants (the Home Officeestimates there are between 310,000 and 570,000 irregular migrants in the UK) we have. And that in itself is an issue. As a solution to that, do we regularise their residence and grab something approaching £3bn in tax and NI off them?

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

TomG, Support for the BNP gone through the roof since Question Time so don't really think he came across as that bad to people do you?

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

So can we make jokes about everything then wag? Those darkies included?

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

Why has nobody mentioned Dimbleby's tie? There's no way he would have gotten away with that on any other show.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Seditious eh? What a word. Now if someone would like to explain wtf it means then I'll answer.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela,the Lib dems wont make it either and the BNP are far from the dizzy heights of the top three. Polls mean two things, nothing and nowt!

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

We all have a duty to be tolerant but it is quite true that the authorities are scared of dealing with some sections of Muslim society for fear of being branded institutionally racist. There is too much left to the community to deal with and quite frankly they are not capable as the problem is too large, diverse and growing. It's not simply a Muslim V Christian problem as many Muslims have problems with the Islamic extremists within our society. To be clear there are Islamic extremists within our society, we have the London bombings and failed Airplane masacres to prove this. I believe this to be the tip of the iceberg, have a look at this http://www.islam4uk.com/ . There is a problem and the longer the mainstream ignores the publics concern, the more support the BNP will get. So rather than debate how he looked on QT or how incompetant Straw remains, lets deal with the issues.

AliceOctober 23rd 2009.

In other words you don't have a source that you can point others to, so people just have to take your word for it.

JayneyBabyOctober 23rd 2009.

I don't believe it; I have just come back on after eighteen hours and you are still here Cas dribbling on. GET A LIFE. for godsake getalife. Editor, do us all a favour and close this thread. please, please please.

Seen the LightOctober 23rd 2009.

Blimey im exhaused reading all this tittle tattle, but im actually with Angela all the way on this as she puts forward a non inflammatory, intelligent argument. Question Time was typically biased lefty liberal BBC viewing as i expected , Nick Griffin was publicly lynched and it was uncomfortable to watch. He couldv'e been more eloquent and had a chance to put across a better argument, but sadly he was shouted down far too much, largely Dimbleby's fault. He should have remained impartial throughout. Set in "safe" London it was biased from the start, and didn't wholly represent the true make up of Great Britain i felt. One in four people in London is foreign/ethnic minority. So technically 20% of our population is then foreign/ethnic minority?? Not the 10% then which is what the government is putting out?! Why wasn't Birmingham chosed as a venue? Why wasn't there a more balanced right/left wing audience? I can understand why Angela is frustrated as Manchester is becoming a collection of ghettos. Areas are being flooded with Africans/Asians/Others at an alarming pace (esp Moston) thus not allowing natural integration to take place and yet local people are not told why!and yet our taxes are funding this. We need to get out of Europe its costing us millions each day and we seem to get a lot less out of it. We simply have more people and less resources its ludicrous! We are being remotely controlled by europeans who are dictating what we can/can't say and do and the british take it lying down! The government can't even state who is entering/leaving the country yet they allow anyone who wants to come here settle! That to me is naive and dangerous even from an infrastructure/planning perspective. Who on earth has been voting for these morons? Jack Straw was pathetic when asked about this, sidestepping the issue each time. Who on earth would put a jewish man as foriegn secretary and expect impartial decisions to be made? and then its Milliband (another jewish man!) whats the agenda here i wonder? next thing we're waging war in Iraq. Divide and Rule is at play here yet again, let the immigration spiral out of control whilst we bicker amongst ourselves, meanwhile, the greedy bankers get away with blue murder virtually bringing the economy to its knees! Then we have the expenses scandal! Clever distraction techniques eh? The country is screwed and we need drastic measures for drastic times if want to save Great Britain and its traditions. Why shouldn't this country remain christian? How dare people call us racist for suggesting this! Sharia Law could be soon a part of our society, we already have Lord Ahmed and Baroness Warsi in the establishment so is it a matter of time i wonder............makes you think of the bigger picture certainly.

janeyOctober 23rd 2009.

Angela ..Oh dear .. While i agree that immigration might be out of control and the mainstream parties have done little to reduce it..the BNP are NOT the answerPutting aside their views on race as we all know what they are . They are homophobic and after reading comments from other BNP members they are not to friendly towards physically and mentally ill people saying they are a drain on resources so Angela does this remind you of anything...??anything that may have happened in the recent past...you know that war we won with the help of many POLISH , PAKISTANI, ,BENGAIL, AUSTRALIAN , yes The Nazis did nto just persecute the Jews but gay and handicapped people who even were experimented on Thgink When you vote for the BNP what if your chld turns out disabeld or gay , or falls in love with a black personBy the way a BNP leaflet we had through our door was in Helvetica..A typeface produced by two Swedish gentlemen !! Oh and by the way Nick Griffin has a Glass eye ..First invented by the Germans

DigOctober 23rd 2009.

Playground politics deserve playground humour. As for the boz eyed comments they were referring to certain photographs that made peoples eyes look funny. Yeah you're right Liverpool Wag. Back to Liverpool, where people don't take life too seriously.

tomegranateOctober 23rd 2009.

Your point doesn't make any sense. We're not having anyone's culture forced on us. You're free to do as you like. Unless I've missed a flyer from the council, we're not required by law to be able to recite the Koran. Conservative Muslims demanding the UK become a Islamic state (if that is even what the protest is about?) does not mean it is ever going to happen, so your question is meaningless.

scoteeeOctober 23rd 2009.

bloody hell you lot are worse than me for ranting all day! All the BNP are doing is filling the void created by the governments wishy washy approach to immigration in our request for a balanced and fairer community. Until a real party steps in and supports the concenrs of the majority on immigration then these idiots will continue to air their antiquated ignorance. I am done with argiung about it. The BNP will never get in in a thousand Sunday's. Calm down dears they're just a commercial!” is that the same thing cas?

TomGOctober 23rd 2009.

I think the BBC was right to abandon the normal QT format. Otherwise Griffin would have had the opportunity to portray himself as a normal politician and champion of the people by talking about the posties and MPs on the take. He wants to disguise his real agenda and slip into the mainstream and it was important that he was exposed and skewered for what he is.

Indigenous EuropeanOctober 23rd 2009.

I wonder how Angela would feel if the Europeans kicked her out. Back to work in the mines, what a pleasant future...

AngealOctober 23rd 2009.

O......"lazy, no mark, non working, benefit cheating, greggs pasty eating, Jeremy Kyle guest looking, white indeginous British." So that's your view of all white British people is it? No wonder this country is in the state it is with such self-loathers like you about.

Liverpool wagOctober 23rd 2009.

How come nobody has a sense of humour in Manchester? I'm off back to Liverpool

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Can I apologise to the readers that this has gone off at a unhelpful tangent but I'll defend myself against 'anon'. I said 'I think they should put Google down' which is explain by my above comment. I also said "if you can't comprehend my above posts then seek help. I believe Google usually does it for you". Jesi Crisi!

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Alice, It isn't a separate issue though.

CasOctober 23rd 2009.

Tom, everyone is entitled to their opinion, unfortunately even those who disagree with you. It is one thing arguing with that opinion and quite another several people bombarding someone because they dare to differ. Give it a rest.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

Rosie, thanks for that intelligent comment. Your debating skills are amazing! And Alice, I thought I had made it clear that I cannot see and cannot find any way in which it has changed the UK for the better. That's why I asked if you could enlighten me.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

There's plenty of data on this from schools themselves.

OOctober 23rd 2009.

rightly so that he was constantly attacked

ChrisOctober 23rd 2009.

O - my point was that in work this morning a lot of people commented that Griffin had their sympathy because he was constantly attacked and that QT should be about debate, I never said he came across well did I?. By the way Jack Straw was a joke

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

So tell me....how could it possibly be any worse??

emma graceOctober 23rd 2009.

east lancs, I distinctly remember a young girl putting her hand up and asking Nick to explain his party's policies in more detail. Dimbleby cut her off saying "we will get to that later".....still waiting...........

AnonymousOctober 23rd 2009.

The audience decides the questions on Question Time - I've been one of them. Each audience member submits two questions. From each of the 6/7 most popular topics one question is chosen. Not the BBC's fault if the audience all asked questions about the BNP. Griffin exposed as the idiot he is though - result.

AngelaOctober 23rd 2009.

I think that people who are here illegally should go and I don't see what is wrong with that at all. And we simply cannot allow more and more in as we are only a very small country and anyone with an ounce of common sense would have to agree with the fact that we are over crowded.

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