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Night & Day Dispute Heading For Three Day Trial

Confidential speaks again with the complainant as noise case heads for three day trial

Written by . Published on March 7th 2014.


Night & Day Dispute Heading For Three Day Trial
 

THE noise levels at Night and Day have been a point of discussion in the city over the past few months. The on-going row is now heading to court in July for a three-day trial before three magistrates.

"We first began our complaints in October last year and by the time this case goes to court we will have had nine months of this, we just don't know when it will end."

Confidential has been reporting on the noise nuisance row from the initial petitioning by Night and Day to a collection of opinions from all sides of the dispute. The next stage is a three-day trial in which the Night and Day bar and music venue will contest the abatement notice between 9-11 July.

Night And Day StageNight and Day stage has been graced by many famous music acts

We spoke to the complainant (who still wishes to remain anonymous):

"The case has now gone to a three day trial, which has left us and the council very unhappy. Night and Day are saying they might be a noise nuisance but are now putting the emphasis on the council and have spoken to the planning department.

"They're bringing up information on the building as they believe it's not adequately insulated and sound proofed. They're saying it's not their fault. Night and Day are arguing that there is a gap between their building and ours which is why there is an issue of noise. 

"We don't want to see Night and Day closed down and neither do the council. We just want them to stand by the terms of the notice. We understand they are trying to protect their business but they were fully aware of this court case coming up and we have had the council's noise team out to our flat eight days in a row. Last Sunday and Monday the noise levels were very, very intense.

"We have been in talks with Jennifer, one of the owners, who wanted to come into our flat and assess the noise with a sound engineer. We were happy to allow the engineer in but didn't want to have Jen in so she refused; it was either both of them or nothing.

"We did have an acoustic engineer in on the 27 February who Night and Day had employed to provide a report, but on the night we feel they turned it down so they could have a glowing report that might possibly be used in court. It seems to have become a cat and mouse game with them. 

"We were never aware of how bad the noise would be when we moved in, and we feel that is the fault of our landlord. I know people have argued that we moved into a noisy area with bars and clubs but we live on Oldham Street and except for Dry Bar and Night and Day it's mainly shops. It's so frustrating to see people comment the same thing over and over. Canal Street is more of a noise problem, the noise team from the council have told us that.

"Sure, we considered moving but the council's case could collapse if we move. Night and Day are not doing what is right and they are in breach of their licence.

"If they continue to be a noise nuisance the council have told us this will lead to an interview under caution with Night and Day and could open up another case with Night and Day and their licence. This would run alongside the abatement case so there would effectively be two cases.

Equipment specifications for Night and DayEquipment specifications for Night and Day

"Night and Day are trying to act like a 20,000 capacity venue. Their equipment specification is excessive for a small venue. They have four bass bins, five smaller basses, wall basses and amplifiers. We just think they should take a few things out, surely they don't need all that equipment. It's just showing off. They can still put on a concert but they are not competing on the same level as the Phones 4U arena. They are next to residential properties and they just dont care. It's simply not fair what they're doing.

"The case is really taking its toll on myself and my partner. We're right next to it and this whole thing has been so stressful. I'm receiving victim support, I've had death threats and it's put a strain on our relationship.

"Our lease on this flat is up until January 2015, we first began our complaints in October last year and by the time this case goes to court we will have had nine months of this, we just don't know when it will end. It's become even worse. We never used to be able to hear the DJ noise after the bands and now we can, it's very loud. It's the bass, it can go on until 3am.

Confidential went to Night and Day to speak to the owners once more, but after some time waiting we were told that the owners, Jan and Jen, were unable or unwilling to comment at this time.

A Manchester City Council spokesman said: "Following the preliminary hearing, Night and Day's appeal against our noise abatement notice has been adjourned until July 9-11. We will continue to maintain dialogue with both parties until that time we remain hopeful that we can reach an agreement which satisfies both parties."

Here are links to the previous two articles covering the Night and Day noise issue:

Night and Day Closure? (January 16)

Night and Day: The Other Side (January 21)

Follow Niamh on twitter @missnspence

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AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

it's amazing this has even gone this far. I still don't see how someone from "out of town" can move in, and within a year have a long standing, much loved Manchester institution shut down just because it doesn't fit in with their lifestyle ideals.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

It's about N&D not sticking to what they're supposed to be doing. N&D should be allowed to continue with the live music etc, but they need to stop taking the piss. Likewise the residents should accept the fact that living in the NQ isn't going to be silent.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

me again (original commenter) - can i just point out that when I say someone from "out of town", I don't mean that in a negative, finger-pointy way - "urrrrgh, OUTSIDERS!" type of thing. I moved to Manc nearly 10 years ago and always found it incredibly friendly and all inclusive; what I mean is, someone moving in with no knowledge or appreciation of the area or culture, who then immediately rally against it because it's not what they imagined / were sold.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

What will this also open the doors to? I quite fancy a house in Stretford, but it appears there's a noisy football stadium there that may be bothersome. If I buy the house, can I get the council to review the weekend noise levels, based on this case??

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

"We weren't told". "It's the landlord's fault". "It's not fair". Caveat emptor.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 8th 2014.

I have read the stories over the last few weeks, What I believe the complainant meant about over the landlord is, He/She must have asked the landlord was it this bad when they lived here and from the comments in the stories The landlord must have said Yes, But I do agree that the landlord should have told the complainant before they moved in and from what I have read and seen in the stories the landlord never told the people how bad it may get . But the landlord still isn't sat in N&D turning up the volume, All I can see is N&D taking this to far and to another level.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

nearly 70,000 petition signatures - not to mention the (admittedly unjustifiable) death threats - protesting against the actions of these two, and yet they still feel they're in the right here. shows just how stubbornly entitled these two feel they are to getting their own way. most (normal) people would see this level of uproar, accept they're in the wrong, and move on (and preferably out).

6 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

The 70,000 what signed the petition " Don't live next door to the venue" do they! So what do they know.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

Conversely, all because you were there first doesn't mean you can take the p!ss.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

"so what do they know" - well, 70k+ people know they enjoy the venue in its current (and long established) state and don't want to see it affected by two Johnny-come-latelies to the area. Two people's sense of entitlement taking on 70,000 people's obvious enjoyment and passion for the venue: THAT'S taking the p*ss, mate. (especially as there's plenty of other places in town these people could move to).

RMMANCMarch 7th 2014.

70K people signed a petition to save N&D from closing down. N&D was never in danger of closing down. All they were asked was to turn the volume BACK DOWN to what it was before October. A professional, fair businessman would have worked with the Residents & council to resolve the situation, not put all their time & effort into fighting it and dragging it out for months & months. If you knew anything about acoustics, you would know there are plenty of different things that could have been done to resolve this situation. It never had to go this far.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

What RMMANC said

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

N +D are treading a dangerous path. They've got everyone whipped up about 'potential' closure that was never going to happen. Lets hope it's not threatened in the future with real closure.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

I've previously had some sympathy to the resident involved, but they are starting to sound malicious now, and a bit obsessed and unbalanced about it. he whole issue obviously causing not only them, but a lot of people, the owners, council officials and the owners and patrons of the venue a great deal of unhappiness. At they end of the day, for the good of their sanity they could move, literally, anywhere else in Manchester. There is room.

6 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

Agreed. It's a bit rich of them to talk about N&D 'showing off' and trying to compete with the Arena, after their previous complaints about N&D being hyperbolic and overblowing the situation.

RMMANCMarch 7th 2014.

The point that was being made was that N&D had far too many speakers for such a small venue. If you even read this report you will see it is about N&D taking this too far. From what has been said before, all anyone has asked them to do is turn the volume back down or work with the council. How is N&D dragging this out for months and demanding a 3 day trial, being cooperative?

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

I'm aware of the point that was being made. It is simply your opinion that they have too many speakers.

RMMANCMarch 7th 2014.

Not just my opinion, the opinion of many, including acoustic engineers who have looked into this. Also having come from a background of managing Live music venues, I can quite safely say, I know what I am talking about. For a 200 capacity venue you would, at most, need 1 bass bin, at an absolute push 2. N&D have 4!

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

What live music venues have you managed, out of interest?

beastleyMarch 7th 2014.

@RMMANC - you are suggesting that N&D have too many speakers but theyve had that many speakers for years and never once have they had an issue before these 2 complainants moved in. N&D was on its site long before those residentials were even developed so surely its the responsibility of the developer to have ensured their properties were properly sound insulated, it wouldnt have been hard for them to check the noise levels from N&D at the time so they could easily have been able to insulate during the development. This feels to me like the usual shoddy " do it on the cheap" approach that residential developers generally take and yet its N&D that are going to suffer for it

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

If the city centre is to become a modern, sophisticated, diverse environment then it needs to rid itself of an over-reliance on catering for young and boozed up people with a lot of disposable income. I know many younger people regard Manchester's pop music and bar scene as interesting and trendy but to allow it to dominate the culture of the city centre belittles the city and makes it like some kind of overgrown market town where the kids from surrounding villages all flock in to get drunk at weekends. I'm unimpressed with Manchester city centre at night. Compared to some European cities of similar size it is noisy, drunken and infantile.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

Granddad, what have I told you about using the Internet?! I'll go get your slippers for you.

RMMANCMarch 7th 2014.

He made a very valid point. Shame those in favour of N&D can't help being rude & abusive to people taking the Residents side.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

Which cities are these? Every city in Europe has bars and nightclubs throughout their centres, and heavy drinking.

rinkydinkMarch 7th 2014.

Barcelona, Brussels, Amsterdam. Three major cities that I have been to where the drinking culture is far more refined. The only people there that can't handle their drink are British

Ghostly TomMarch 7th 2014.

Didn't these people see the bar next door when they chose to move there? Did they think it was occupied by an order of silent nuns? Bars and clubs are going to noisy and raucous, it's what they do. If you choose to live in the city centre it's part and parcel of the experience. If they want peace and quiet there should take themselves off to some remote bit of Cheshire. It would be wrong if this bar should face censure because some people didn't have the sense to do basic homework.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

It's the landlord's fault, apparently.

RMMANCMarch 7th 2014.

It isn't the landlords fault. Why are people in favour of the bar constantly and conveniently ignoring the point that the volume went up to an extreme level from October, or that the complainants also complained on behalf of a number of other residents who also had issue with the volume going up. Where have the complainants ever said they wanted "peace & quiet"?

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

The complainant says it is. Yet if the volume only apparently went up in October, how can the landlord have been expected to have told them how loud it was going to be when they moved in?

Ghostly TomMarch 7th 2014.

Why do things always have to be someone else's fault? What ever happened to personal responsibility? I would have seen the bar, thought 'that's going to be a bit noisy,' and walked away. was the landlord supposed to have pointed it out to them? 'By the way you might hear a bit of noise from this popular bar on a Saturday night..' Some people are unbelievable...

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

"We were happy to allow the engineer in but didn't want to have Jen in" / "on the night we feel they turned it down so they could have a glowing report that might possibly be used in court" / "we feel [it] is the fault of our landlord" / "we considered moving but the council's case could collapse if we move" / "Night and Day are trying to act like a 20,000 capacity venue... it's just showing off" / "It's simply not fair what they're doing" / "this whole thing has been so stressful" / "I'm receiving victim support": I think all this paints quite a picture of the complainant. Poor diddums.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

It comes down to this: if the conditions are making the couple so miserable they should move for their health and sanity.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

^^^ exactly: so why try to take down a much loved Manchester institution in the process?

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

One of the best small live music venues in Manchester. It's a Manchester institution and it's very important these independent businesses remain open. Just move house! I suggest castle-field as a quieter alternative!

1 Response: Reply To This...
RMMANCMarch 7th 2014.

No! Why should the complainant be bullied out of there Home! The Venue is in the wrong (The venue just needs to turn down the volume Bass and work with the Council that's all) simply as that!

beastleyMarch 7th 2014.

i have to ask, what proof is there that noise levels went up in october? apart from the complainants say so that is. im just curious. I support N&D fully as long as they are maintaining the agreed sound levels in their license - in which case the complainant should shut the hell up and move somewhere else. However if they are knowingly exceeding the agreed noise levels for their license then they need to be brought to task. At the end of the day one pub/bar/club ignoring the terms of their license opens the doors for all others to do it, in turn giving the council reason to start cancelling licenses and closing places down

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

Night and Day clearly in the wrong. If they are in breach of noise levels then they must be quieter. Very simple

ShybaldbuddhistMarch 7th 2014.

I singed the petition as soon as heard what was going on. I now regret signing it as it's clear the volume has recently gone up and the residents never wanted the venue to close and nor did the council. That's why a lot of people signed the petition, the threat of closure. That was never the case. There's no need for 4 bass bins in a venue that small and imo the venue is being uncooperative.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
Nick NameMarch 8th 2014.

*Signed! I regret signing the petition also.

tblzebraMarch 8th 2014.

I also regret signing, and unfortunately there isn't an option to unsign - I tried to.

AnonymousMarch 7th 2014.

It's clear that N & D are the one's who blew this all out of control. It's clear what was asked was for them to turn the volume down to what it was pre October. And they have made it into a media frenzy to get people in after Christmas " which is called post Christmas " the law is there for a reason and from what I've seen and heard N&D are not working within the law and within there license conditions so it's there own fault. Why should the residents suffer! It's been clear from all the news stories over this that night and day don't care about anyone or anything but themselves. I totally agree with the residents why should they move when all is being asked is for night and day just to turn down the bass volume to what it was pre October. The residents haven't asked night and day to move have they NO! Or for to close. Night and day just need to work with the council but from what I've read it seems there gong to fight it. We will all have to wait until July to see what happens.

rinkydinkMarch 8th 2014.

The council are partly to blame. This mix and match approach, flats in one block, bar/club next door doesn't work. It's kind of obvious that it won't really. So don't do it

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 8th 2014.

Sorry but your wrong, Is the council sat in N&D every Night turning the volume up "No" it's Not so the only one's who can stop that is N&D. Also bar and flats can work next to each other with the Bar owner willing work with the residents, But on this occasion the Bar owner doesn't so the council has to work within the Law and that's why the Bar owner got the notice.

AnonymousMarch 8th 2014.

The story said the two complainants rent so they can sue the landlord for not telling them before they moved in it could get so noisy. The landlord should have told the tenant's but I do agree with one of the comments on here it's not the landlord turning up the volume in N&D. So night and day are still in the wrong

Mark.March 8th 2014.

We have laws regarding excessive noise in the UK. The law is the same wherever you live.

AnonymousMarch 8th 2014.

"We first began our complaints in October last year" and "Our lease on this flat is up until January 2015" - says the complainant. Is it not common practice to work with 6 or 12 month leases/contracts in the Northern Quarter? Does that mean they complained 3 months BEFORE signing a (new?) contract? I wonder why... Be interesting to know what others think...

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousMarch 8th 2014.

It doesn't matter when they signed there new contracts (All what matters is that the landlord should have told them before they moved in) Also the main point is that N & D should not be turning up the volume to an excessive noise level.

AnonymousMarch 8th 2014.

In this technological age surely it would be relatively easy to fit sound meters which record the sound levels for every second the place is open. The venue could hardly object if it claims to be sticking to proper and reasonable sound levels.

AnonymousMarch 10th 2014.

EDITORIAL COMMENT: In line with Confidentials’ ‘Rant Policy’ we have removed this rant because it breaches our conditions, in this case the release of personal information. If the individual that posted this rant continues they shall be banned from posting on this site altogether.

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