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Night And Day Closure

Niamh Spence speaks to the owners Jan and Jen

Written by . Published on January 16th 2014.


Night And Day Closure
 

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOW-UP ARTICLE TO THIS HERE.

IT’S NOT common knowledge that the popular music venue Night and Day is a family run business.

Managed by father and daughter duo Jan and Jennifer Oldenburg, Night and Day have helped to launch Mancunian acts like Elbow on to worldwide success and were one of the very first bars to set up stall in the Northern Quarter nearly a quarter of a century ago.

Now the threat of closure could put an end to the 23-year-old venue.

“We’ve been here 23 years and I would really like to make it to 25."

A complaint made by a resident living on Oldham Street has seen the bar handed a statutory nuisance abatement notice, which could see an untimely end to this long-standing bastion of Manchester music.

Many famous music acts have graced the Night and Day stageMany famous music acts have graced the Night and Day stage

“We only got the notice yesterday,” explains Jennifer. “We face a £20,000 fine or six months imprisonment if we breach the noise levels. We don’t even know what the level is as it’s not been measured with a decibel reader.

“The complaint was made last Saturday which wasn’t even a particularly loud night for us. It’s really worrying for us as we’ve been here 23 years; long before the flats were even built.” 

With 21 days to launch an appeal, the duo began an online petition on the night of Wednesday 15 January. In less than 24 hours they'd amassed a staggering 38,083 signatures (roughly equating to 1800 signatures an hour).

“It’s really emotional for us to see how much people care about Night and Day,” says Jan. “Even after the first 100 signatures I was getting emotional.” 

A bar that nearly every music goer who has grown up in Manchester can remember visiting, losing such a venue would be a huge blow to the city’s music scene. “We’re a platform for lots of up and coming bands,“ says Jennifer. “It would be a massive shame for the city to lose our venue."

The online support has been flowing in thick and fast for Night and Day, "We’ve had massive support from musicians such as Johnny Marr, Frank Turner, Tim Burgess and lots of local bands too," says Jan. "There’s been so many tweets coming in that it’s hard to keep a track of everyone expressing their support for us.”

Twitter support from The Smiths guitarist Johnny MarrTwitter support from Johnny Marr

The pair are adamant that they don't want to enter into a war with the resident who issued the complaint, but just want the council to recognise the importance of Night and Day as a music venue, "This is a street full of bars and people going out. People come to this city for the entertainment. Our concerts are always over by 12 o'clock," says Jan. 

“We’ve been here 23 years and I would really like to make it to 25. Venues all over the country are struggling with this same issue so hopefully if we can stay open then it will help them out as well.”

Night and Day Cafe are currently appealing the notice. With so much public support, Confidential would be hugely surprised to see this closure carried through. The number currently stands at 40,000, it could easily reach 100,000. That's a lot of NOs.

Find Night and Day Cafe on Twitter: @nightanddaycafe

And to sign the petition to get Manchester City Council to remove the Statutory Nuisance Abatement Notice: www.change.org/nightandday

Night And Day barNight And Day bar

To close?To close?

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MattJanuary 16th 2014.

Nonsense. Don't move in to a flat near to a music venue that has been there for many years more than the flat has existed and complain about the noise from that venue. Night and Day is indeed a Manchester institution and I am sure that common sense will prevail. 23 years in not nearly quarter of a decade by the way. Quite pertinent in view of the content of the article!

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 16th 2014.

It's an absolute disgrace, and Manchester City Council ought to take a long hard look at themselves if this how they think they should be treating long-established local businesses. You have to be an utterly self-centred arsehole to move in next door to a live music venue in a busy area and then complain about the noise.

AnonymousJanuary 16th 2014.

Why is the northern quarter suddenly full of NIMBYS? You live in a city centre so deal with the noise or fuck off to the suburbs. I fully support night and day and all the other independent bars, restaurants etc that have regenerated the northern quarter and made it their home. And yes I do live here and love that this is all on my doorstep.

Kevin PeelJanuary 16th 2014.

People might be interested in reading this: citycentrelabour.org.uk/…/…

2 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 16th 2014.

The consumate politician's statement. Says a lot whilst saying nothing.

AnonymousJanuary 16th 2014.

If you don't like noise don't move in next to a live music venue. Hope this **** complaining reads this and feels very embarrassed.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

I think you will find you would be the embarrassed one, once you read the real story and not this drivel spouted out by the owners of the bar

mancadamJanuary 17th 2014.

i dont think so, there is absolutely no element of this story that doesn't make the complainant look like a complete cretin.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

and saying that actually makes you look like the real "cretin".

Adam LynnJanuary 18th 2014.

no, it really doesn't.

AnonymousJanuary 16th 2014.

By allowing the flats to be built the council is effectively telling people that the area is a suitable place for people to live. It can hardly tell those people that they have less protection against noise nuisance than residents in other parts of the city, especially as it'll be taking plenty of council tax from them. Perhaps the council should have done things differently, either by refusing permission for the flats or using powers to end the noise from the club before building them. But that would have taken forward planning, something which the city council and its employees cannot do with any competence. But why should they care? They get the work and the wages from intervening in a dispute they could have prevented.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

No, we should have flats among the bars, I live round here because I chose to, if you don't want to live amongst the bars you shouldn't live in this area.

mancadamJanuary 17th 2014.

so, because come people are too stupid to do even the most basic of research into their prospective neighbourhood before moving there, it's then the responsibility of the local authority to ensure it's impossible for them to make the mistake in the first place? you do make me laugh.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

"research"??? One of the residents has lived there 12 years. It was only the last few months that it became a problem when they suddenly turned up the volume. The local authority got involved and agreed.

Andy LoynesJanuary 17th 2014.

Perhaps the developers should have been told from the outset that THEY need address the issues and if not they should not be building flats neighbouring a live music venue. Equally the resident should have done some due diligence; after all it's not the first time an idiot has discovered that living amongst nightlife involves living amongst nightlife. People moving into the city then kicking off like this will kill the very reason why they moved to the city in the first place.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Will be interested to see the councils response to all this. Surely common sense and public opinion should prevail? Lets see if the city centre mouth piece Pat Karney puts his joint down for long enough to offer an opinion.

7 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

citycentrelabour.org.uk/…/…

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

As above - says a lot whilst saying nothing. If peace and quiet means that much to you don't live in the middle of the NQ? Its like buying a house near an airport and complaining about noise from planes.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Says nothing? So telling the truth of what really happened is saying nothing? You, like so many others, miss the point. The volume was turned up higher to a more than unacceptable level in October. all that was being asked by residents (plural) was that it be turned back.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

The point is that come city centre residents are unrealistic and too sensitive. I lived in NQ until recently and every application for a bar or restaurant etc. was met with objections from whinging residents. Its fairly simple to me, live in the city and accept it or as the post above states "fuck off to the suburbs".

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

You clearly have paid no attention to the actual real story of what has happened and are either stubborn or too stupid to realise how ridiculous your rhetoric is.

Andy LoynesJanuary 17th 2014.

Let's hope Pat Karney sues your "anonymous" arse

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Sue who for what?

TimJanuary 17th 2014.

Unfortunately there is a precedent for this and it didn't end well. The wonderful Point venue in Cardiff Bay had to close a couple of years ago in very similar circumstances. I just hope the council in Manchester have more sense. As for the local resident - there is an old Latin phrase often used in law - caveat emptor. He/she should look it up before moving onto a street full of late night bars. Good luck Night And Day.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

What a completely one sided pile of tosh! Couldn't you be arsed to actually get the other side of the story? 1. The person who complained, was doing it on behalf of a number of Residents, one of which has lived there 12 years. 2. The complaint was regarding the Night and Day bar turning up the volume since October on a number of nights to a more than unacceptable level. 3. This lovely Father & Daughter have been abusive and refused to work with the residents or the council to resolve this issue since last year. 4. The reason the level has not been measured by a decibel reader is because of point 3. They refused to let the council check. 5. Since this interview, they have now contacted the council and quietly (away from the press) agreed to start being cooperative. 6. They are NOT being closed down. They were never in any danger of being closed down. How can asking them to keep the volume at the level it was before October cause them to have to close down?

10 Responses: Reply To This...
EditorialJanuary 17th 2014.

Follow-up article on its way dear Anon.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Shame you couldn't have done it all in one report. Will be interesting to see if the follow up article including the residents and councils sides of the story will be a smaller report... I wait with bated breath

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

If there's been no decibel reading how do you know the volume has increased?

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

I imagine the original anon is using a technical device know as 'their ears'.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

*known. That's what I get for being sarcastic!

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Agreed. Its a wonderful new invention called "ears". That and the sudden vibration through the floor and walls...also coupled with the fact at least 4 other Residents noticed...

Andy LoynesJanuary 17th 2014.

Can you not stop people posting anonymously editor? It would help.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Only on this article or on all of them? Judging by your other comments, I would hazard a guess you either work for or have something to do with the Night and Day bar

Andy LoynesJanuary 18th 2014.

I have something to do with Night & Day in that I've been to a good few cracking gigs there, that's all. Why do you choose to post anonymously whilst chucking out ludicrous comments like that?

AnonymousJanuary 18th 2014.

I think there is more than one anonymous account mate. They aren't all just one person lol. You need to chill. I am going to pick anonymous now as well just to annoy you

Ghostly TomJanuary 17th 2014.

If people want peace and quiet move up some secluded track in deepest Cheshire. If you buy a flat in the N4 you need to know that some noise will come with it. Don't close down this bar, make sure the complainer has a reality check about living in a vibrant, noisy city centre.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Here is the real story and read the comments above citycentrelabour.org.uk/…/…

Poster BoyJanuary 17th 2014.

Two sides to every story. Shock. Except in this case ManCon manage to 'report' only one...

2 Responses: Reply To This...
EDITORIALJanuary 17th 2014.

Follow-up on its way as we speak.

Dan McGlynnJanuary 17th 2014.

Quarter of a decade? ManCon editors on the ball as always.

1 Response: Reply To This...
EDITORIALJanuary 17th 2014.

Changed now. Thanks for the insight.

Hero
AndyJanuary 17th 2014.

Is this part correct? "An officer offered advice to the licensee which was again refused".

Smithfield WineJanuary 17th 2014.

I was one of the first residents in Smithfield Building. Bloxham promised us Multiplex cinema standard of insulation against noise. Like a pillock I believed him. Both Dry Bar and Night and Day noise levels were truly excessive and the management at both venues at that time were really arrogant and refused to enter into any discussion. When the council made them fit new insulated doors, they made sure they were wedged open every night. No one wants to see the closure of these iconic venues, but surely they should give some consideration to the residents?

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

That is exactly what has happened here. The owners of Night and Day were arrogant and refused to work with either the Residents or the council. The owners even, at one point phoned the complainant and were abusive because he had asked the council to try and mediate with them.

AnonymousJanuary 18th 2014.

So because the developers failed to provide the correct insulation that was promised, therefore the bars have to shut their doors (yet provide an outside smoking are) insulate their property at massive expense or close down?

AnonymousJanuary 18th 2014.

The properties on the same side of the N&D bar do have sound proofing. The issue now is the bar bringing up the volume since October.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

I think the complainant has too mch time on their hands clearly. Why don't they get a life and errr, go to Night and Day. Stupid resident.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 20th 2014.

That's very one sided...

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

It's impossible that a notice would be served so quickly. If it has been, why don't N&D actually sue the Council for breaking the law? Having been to the venue for years under previous management the door staff's job was to keep the door shut to avoid further visits from the Council regarding noise. So N&D do know what noise levels are and that their venue isn't soundproofed.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

N&D keep saying they have spent thousands of pounds on soundproofing ... not sure where they put it :-p

Ron TowerJanuary 17th 2014.

Poor 'Anonymous' (Residents advocate) above really has his work cut out here, repeatedly referring people to the council's statement. If Man Con had published a balanced article in the first place this might not have been necessary....Most people saying 'f*ck off back to the suburbs' or 'stupid resident' are doing so on this article alone, without even bothering to consider the other side, which is awfully prejudicial. Given that N&D are now actually talking to council officials I'm sure there can be a compromise and this will all be sorted soon.

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

We all hope so, although the owner is still stating he won't reduce the volume back to what it was pre Oct 13. He still says that if he brings the volume down even slightly, the bands will stop playing there and they will have to close...

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Just been informed that the resident in question is being inundated with calls from the media wanting his side. Apparently the N&D are contacting different media giving their story out & then giving the Residents name and phone number to them without his permission ... I'm sure they aren't allowed to do that...

EDITORIALJanuary 17th 2014.

Dear Ron, comments from all sides on the way. Thanks for your patience.

Rick22January 17th 2014.

The article at citycentrelabour.org.uk/…/&…; is interesting and does show a different perspective to the issue. However there is no mention of what the recommendations where given, for all we know the recommendation could of been to stop playing live music! It is easy to both assume that the bar owners are the victim and that the people working for the council are both reasonable and competent. Either could be true or false, the crux of the situation is that area of Manchester is not really suitable for residence with the large number of night life in the area. The resident chose to move into an area that they would of known was lively, no doubt they chose the area because of this. Take responsibility for your own actions in life and deal with the constituencies! Don't blame others and expect them to change to rectify for your poor decision making!

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Perhaps if you actually paid attention to the whole story you would not jump to the same old conclusion that so many ill informed people have done. The complainant on behalf of other residents was only asking the owners of N&D to reduce the volume back to what it was 3 months ago. The N&D owners were arrogant and abusive and refused to work with either the residents or the council. That is why it got to the position it is in now. If you moved near to an airport and then after living there a long time, they one day they decided to have the planes fly a lot lower and closer to your house, are you seriously saying you would do nothing? Only an idiot would just sell up and move without saying anything!

Rick22January 17th 2014.

Ha, you do realise no one believes anonymous poster are actually better informed than anyone else. Unless you are the resident in question or work at night and day you know naff all of the 'facts'. So getting on your high horse about other people being ill informed is comical. By the way if I moved near the airport I would accept that certain things would be beyond my control like the future level of aircraft noise, which is why I wouldn't move there!!

AnonymousJanuary 20th 2014.

Yeah, but Rick... you're missing the point that the bar has got LOUDER.

RMMANCJanuary 20th 2014.

Surprising how many on the N&D side are conveniently missing that point.

Night and DayJanuary 17th 2014.

Dear Anonymous, I don't know where your source of information is from. Night and Day have not and will not give contact information of the complainant to anyone. We at Night and Day take accusations like that very seriously and we strongly advise you to remove or correct that comment immediately.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Funny that is the only point you respond to. You want to know where the source came from? It was the BBC! The BBC phoned him to say YOU had contacted them to give them your story and that YOU gave them the complainants phone number and name so they could contact him. I suggest you take it up with the BBC Northwest if you are saying this is a lie.

Andy LoynesJanuary 17th 2014.

If you're so confident of your allegation, stop posting anonymously.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Ridiculous comment, how would not posting anonymously make the "allegation" any more valid? Why do you want to know which resident I am?

AnonymousJanuary 20th 2014.

I think given the tone of N&D, it's entirely appropriate to post anon.

JoanJanuary 17th 2014.

Most stories have two sides. I'm currently assisting with an issue elsewhere in the city centre where temporary building changes have produced a noise problem which previously did not exist. All parties are talking to oneanother amicably and the situation is being resolved. I'm sure that the Night and Day issues can move in the same direction.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

hope this isn't the 24hr victoria station works you're talking about. after 6 months without a good nite sleep amicable isn't the word residents in the area would use. Mcr council let them work 24 hours by the way...

Alison MeeJanuary 17th 2014.

Ah, when I got multiple requests to sign this petition yesterday it did strike me as being only half the story, and it seems looking at the comments that I was right.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

Residents noticed what "an increase in the noise levels", you have absolutely no specifics, one person witnessing (i.e. the councillor - Yes I've read the other side) "excessive noise levels" does not actually show any increase or change - it may have always been like that, but the new resident finally got pissed off with it. Currently it stands at one person saying .. ooo I think that's a bit louder than before on the odd occasion" and Night and Day saying they haven't changed anything. Without any information about what it was like before, then its frankly out of order for the council to act on any order or fine. In reality the place was there before the flats and if you don't like being where there is regular noise, then move, its obviously not the place for you.

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

How do you know N&D are saying they haven't changed anything? Where in the report did it say that? You sound suspiciously like the actual Night and Day owner. Oh and don't be so stupid as to believe the council only came out one night!

AnonymousJanuary 18th 2014.

Night and Days response is in the petition and the councils response is linked, where is does say they went out to visit the complainant. What I'm saying is as they had not been before they had no way of knowing if anything had changed apart from the complainants opinion.

AnonymousJanuary 18th 2014.

The council had been out repeatedly over a number of weeks, gathering evidence on each night. They did not just go out one night and make a decision. The council would not take the risk of going to court on the evidence of just one night.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

So according to Cllr Kev Peel statement, N&D have been offered advice twice from the council to which they refused and now they're playing victim?

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

I'm frankly sick of the council approving apartments to be built in the NQ, then telling the original residents to shut up or close down. Sankey's was the biggest loss because of this, mulitple places can't even have a door open as it might upset someone. Why do the bars have to be "good neighbours", they were there first - this is a city - not a housing estate.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 20th 2014.

Sankeys is still in business.

A YankJanuary 17th 2014.

As an American who lived in Manchester in 2002/2003, I loved spending time in the Night And Day Cafe, watching established acts and the up and coming talent in Manchester. Night And Day, like Manchester itself, reaches much further than Northwest England. It would be a shame for the city to lose this part of its culture under these circumstances. This is not my war, but if I choosed to live on Oldham Street, I would know what to expect in regards to noise, traffic, congestion, etc. before moving in. I wouldn't ask the community to change for me once I decided to move there. I hope the Manchester City council does the right thing, and Night And Day Cafe is there when I return to visit Manchester in the future.

AnonymousJanuary 17th 2014.

See there is always two side's to a story and it's now clear that Night & Day have lied and they have never wanted to work with the Residents. The Bar owner says he is thinking of buying the apartment. So he can clearly afford to buy the neighbours home but acts like he can't afford to pay a fine if he breaches the notice. Here is the other Side of the story from the Residents below, www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/…/Night-And-Day-The-Other-Side…

John HallJanuary 17th 2014.

Lets have a great British compromise ,hey? - some gigs at NnD are very loud [ and the beer expensive] - let's look at lowering both a tad? As we defiantely don't want to lose this iconic Manchester venue..here ,at a click, are many reasons why it should contine to be at the heart beat of Manc music.. www.youtube.com/results…

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJanuary 18th 2014.

John Hall it isn't getting closed down all is being asked is that they turn it down, And the Bar owner is saying No

BernieJanuary 20th 2014.

Come on people work together on this :-)

AnonymousFebruary 18th 2014.

Is it true what we are hear that there is a court date for Night & Day Bar set in March (What's going on as there has been NO update's on any matters for age's now) Please can someone tell us from your team if your doing an update to this story?

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