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City Centre Transport Strategy: The Debate, Weds 19 June

Cllr Nigel Murphy, MCC, and Cllr Andrew Fender, Chair of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee at the Yang Sing on what is happening with private vehicles and the city centre

Written by . Published on June 17th 2013.


City Centre Transport Strategy: The Debate, Weds 19 June

FULL REPORT AND COMMENT ON THE MEETING ON CONFIDENTIAL - Monday 24 June

 THE recent proposals for the Oxford Road and Princess Street areas of Manchester have raised concerns amongst many businesses, residents and city centre users, about  how people will be able to circulate easily around the city centre.

Have assessments been made of the impact on city centre businesses, and on tourismy?

People are particularly worried it is becoming harder to access premises by private vehicles, including private hire cab firms. 

There is also a great deal of disquiet over the early evening on-street parking fees, the narrowing of Deansgate and the closure of Victoria Street.

A number of questions need answering.   

To start with, what is the overall transport strategy for Manchester city centre?

Is the goal of the city council and Transport for Greater Manchester to exclude private vehicles and private hire firms from the city centre, or parts of the city centre, altogether over time? Do we have the public transport to cover such changes?

How will people away from public transport routes, or the elderly and disabled, for whom two or three changes from bus to train to tram might be too much, access the amenities of the city centre? When the second city centre Metrolink line is routed down Princess Street adjacent to the Town Hall, how will vehicles be able to get from east to west and vice versa through the city centre? 

Have assessments been made of the impact on city centre businesses, and on tourism? 

MCR panorama

 

MCR panorama

 

To answer these questions Cllr Nigel Murphy, Executive Member of Manchester City Council and Cllr Andrew Fender, Chair of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee, and other guests such as city centre councillor Joan Davies, will be debating and discussing the issue on Wednesday 19 June at 7.30pm in the Yang Sing. 

If you wish to take part in this vital debate and find out what is planned for the city centre - the main driver of the regional economy - and its transport strategy and what businesses, residents and other interested parties can do to influence policy, fill in the form below and return to us. There are 200 places available so get back to us immediately to avoid disappointment. 

The meeting has been organised by Manchester Confidential together with its partners in Manchester city centre, businesses, residents and representatives from areas such as Chinatown and elsewhere. You can read about the bus strategy here.

 
 
 
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122 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

AnonymousJune 10th 2013.

IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU PROVIDED THEM WITH THE CURRENT STRATEGY AND A LINK THE THE BUS PRIORITY PACKAGE BUT I SUSPECT YOU JUST WANT YAHOO! BOO!

hulmemanJune 10th 2013.

Respect to Buses, Taxis and Delivery Vehicles, the rest can either go to hell, or use the Inner Ring Road!

4 Responses: Reply To This...
CinnaJune 13th 2013.

I suspect the city traders might well disagree with you. As far as I can see it's basically the anti private vehicle lobby in council driving this rather than a real need.

AnonymousJune 17th 2013.

Why should the "rest go to hell"? Most people don't want to use public transport or overly expensive taxis.

AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

What about disabled people? Public transport seems to assume they only travel off peak. Buses and Trams despite being accessible these days are so crammed that the chance of a wheelchair user getting on them is slim to non. We need to make sure all these 'restricted roads' are open to their use so they can park within a reasonable distance of where they need to be.

Blazej MarekJune 18th 2013.

I

JoanJune 10th 2013.

Here’s the link to the TfGM proposals: www.tfgm.com/…/default.html… The consultation deadline has been extended to 5th July, with details of how to submit and remaining drop-in information sessions here: www.tfgm.com/…/News.aspx… Copies of the Manchester City Centre and Greater Manchester Strategies can be easily found using Google.

1 Response: Reply To This...
JoanJune 10th 2013.

That should read 'Transport Strategies'.

Joe MullenJune 11th 2013.

We must make sure that access is easy for all transport users including private vehicles. There is little congestion at present so what's the problem? The main access issues are at night when many people feel uncomfortable returning home after the theatre or a night out on public transport.

AnonymousJune 11th 2013.

Reduced public transport rates for the paying public at weekends to reduce congestion. No incentive for my family to take the bus or tram as its far cheaper to park and more convenient if there a lot of purchases to carry. A flate rate of £1 sounds fare and i bet buses will be bursting...... And roads calm

AnonymousJune 11th 2013.

If it's not bus bike, hackney carriage or delivery. They shouldn't be allowed near. Simples

8 Responses: Reply To This...
Colin QJune 11th 2013.

Why?

AnonymousJune 11th 2013.

agreed

Jim ChadwickJune 13th 2013.

Absolute rubbish!

MikeJune 17th 2013.

What rot

AnonymousJune 17th 2013.

Obviously a communist that hates anything private.

Axel LariatJune 20th 2013.

Sorry but I can't take seriously anyone who ends a statement with "Simples".

TomJune 24th 2013.

Bus lanes restrictions were made many years ago based on having problems policing the lanes. Siince then technology has brought in many types of equipment that distinguis a family car from a private hire vehicle. The restrictions placed 20years ago

TomJune 24th 2013.

Are outdated and we need to get the most from these bus lanes 24hours a day

Colin QJune 11th 2013.

My problem as with Joe is people getting into town from suburbs not near rail or Metrolink and thus having to coordinate bus timetables. They will need to use a private hire vehicle, and then I wonder how do they get home again without using taxis of one sort or another or being picked up by family and friends? This especially affects the old and the infirm.

AnonymousJune 11th 2013.

Having put up with the Metrolink construction in Droylsden for over three years and seeing the end result, it is a joke. The construction period closed many of the local businesses an they built stations with zero parking, make commuting abit hard. They have yet to finish some work and the green areas around most stations are a weed filled mess with stoney soil that is lucky to grow weeds.

AnonymousJune 12th 2013.

"...most stations are a weed filled mess with stoney soil that is lucky to grow weeds." Huh?

TimetoshineJune 13th 2013.

It still amuses me that the bus route from Leigh has destroyed a lush green disused railway through Atherton and Tyldesley and only joins the main carriageway of the East Lancs, meaning no more trees being chopped down, when it hits Conservative led Worsley.

Ric PouJune 15th 2013.

Until a Labour Government has the guts to bring back some regulation of the buses, none of these policies will ever work. In London the centralised control of bus routes and fares, with total fare coordination between buses trams and trains (under and overground trains) means people will use public transport, which has to be cheaper than parking a car or using a taxi.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 17th 2013.

No they won't. Who wants to use some antiquated, inconvenient method of transport that belongs in the last century, when they've got their own private transport or can go online. The only things that'll happen if Councils keep pushing public transport is that their towns and cities will steadily empty and die.

LesleyJune 15th 2013.

The ruinous 12 hour parking policy has clearly had a detrimental effect on many shops,bars,cafes and restaurants in the city centre. The Trafford centre's gain is the city centre's loss. We should be very worried about our beautiful city centre's future. Excluding cars from more yet more areas of the centre is just another nail in the coffin already begun by the city council.

Reader XxxJune 15th 2013.

Get rid of private vehicles and use green buses& taxis. Current buses & taxis are huge polluters particularly when idling everywhere for hours on end. Please make the city centre greener, otherwise I shall follow the exodus of neighbours who have moved out to South Manchester. They now shop in Cheadle's John Lewis & Trafford Centre and are delighted to have rid themselves of pollution, noise, homeless vagrants, antisocial behaviour & litter. Am so tempted to follow, my patience is almost at break point.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 17th 2013.

And how do they get to Cheadle and Trafford Centre? By car/bus/taxi? Your post makes no sense.

Stephen JamesJune 15th 2013.

There should only be one council and TfGM policy and that's to maximise the number of people using the city centre - to get as many people in as possible. That means cars have a place.

1 Response: Reply To This...
MikeJune 17th 2013.

Exactly

Stephen BurrowsJune 16th 2013.

Already it is easy to see the result of blinkered traffic policies (assuming there are any) on the city centre. There are an alarming number of empty premises, the streets on a Friday and Saturday evening are no longer as packed, and many people now don't come into the centre to shop or eat - Chorlton, as an example, is far livelier now that people find it easier / cheaper to go out where they live. The city centre is full of empty disabled parking places, which originally made it harder to come and park on a street in the centre (there are times when you need to do this - not all journeys can be completed by tram or bus), but now there are even non-disabled spaces available. Manchester is probably more vulnerable to the effects of the recession as we have a 'shopping' centre entirely dependent on chains, in direct competition with the Trafford Centre that offers free parking. How this has been allowed to happen is a scandal in itself, but instead of trying to encourage shoppers / food lovers etc into the centre, as they do in Birmingham and many other cities, the parking is still metered until late, the car parks are expensive, and Deansgate has become a single lane road in the attempt to farm all traffic off to the Salford side of the centre. I live near a tram stop and use it whenever I can, but as mentioned it is not always appropriate or convenient, for work or for pleasure. It would be great if we could all leave the car behind, but we can't - and that's an awful lot of people who are being discouraged from coming into Manchester at an extremely difficult time. MCC - it is time to wake up (although I won't hold my breath on that one!)

Stephen BurrowsJune 16th 2013.

READER XXX - how do your neighbours who shop in Cheadle's John Lewis get there? I assume they are in one of the hundred's of cars who make travelling in that area an impossibility at times because of the massive traffic jams around that area. Manchester city centre is a lot greener as at least there is usually a bus or tram that people can take from different parts of GM to get there - how many bus or tram services are there to John Lewis?

TomJune 16th 2013.

Take a look at the new Shudehill bus/ tram station , that wont inspire anyone ? why because there is no facility to drop off passengers or pick them up, it shows the long term plan is to do away with private hire vehicles. When is TfGM going to include all transport providers on a level playing field ? and when are they going to consult with the main integrated door to door transport service provider, namely the PH Trade?

TomJune 16th 2013.

Salford Councillors have just acknowledged the need to allow private hire vehicles into Eccles Town Centre after an absence of over 10 years, why? because the Eccles community committee wanted them in and the council door to door transport evaluation shown disabled and the elderly found getting into PHVs more easy than any other form of transport. Five Salford Labour councillors backed that vote stating its essential that we cater for the needs of all residents. For more information on this evaluation, then hear me loud and clear at this planned meeting! The referendum shown that the people of Greater Manchester want choice of transport, the equality act states you cant treat passenger A any differnt than passenger B, so why do we have these people in power demanding changes, when they dont know the sheer volume of passengers the PH Trade carry or the reasons why so many passengers use PHVs or Black cabs. Ask any member of TfGM or any councillor for the number of Private Hire or Hackney cab passengers, they wont be able to tell you, because they simply dont know. So how can they promote a transport policy without PHVs? As a private hire driver in Salford I alone carried thousands of passengers last year, so what does that tell you ? those passengers picked up a phone and got a driver to pick them up and deliver them from door to door when they wanted, knowing they were dry and safe, try doing with that with any other form of transport 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in all weathers. Manchester Operators and the Manchester private hire association need to combat this threat to the residents of Greater Manchester especially the elderly and the disabled and its time that TfGM took notice that they need to get someone on board to understand not only the PH trade but also the Hackney trade, { the huge volume of passengers and there needs} instead of just inviting the bus companies along, that starts with inviting all private hire and black cabs associations in Greater Manchester to a meeting. Both Black cabs and the PH Trade have one shared speaker Mr Bryan Rowland from the national association [ Bury} so before any member of TfGM states otherwise dont state both trades dont have an elected speaker, the problem lies with no one inviting them to meetings to speak on behalf of the trade.. All Greater Manchester private hire associations want a GM written policy on bus lanes, no more excuses it takes all 10 councils to make a decision, your hiding behind one another without coming to a decision and in the meanwhile the elderly and the disabled are missing out. Lastly Victoria Train station and the Print Works, why do we have a bus lane 24 hours day on the station approach? when no buses use this bus lane in the early hours of the morning,take a look at the congestion around the Print Works and the need to clear the area . If just one councilor would come out and view the congestion late at night they would clearly see the need to open this bus lane up especially at week end between the hours of 12pm - 4pm. Again who is running the city officers or councillors? I sometimes wonder!

AnonymousJune 17th 2013.

Are we really saying that on street parking in Manchester of which there must be less that <200 spaces, are a.) more important than things that actually move people b.) So Important to Manchester's economy that without them, the whole thing falls down? If A.) then we need to actually look at what Transport is supposed to be for,as well as a fundamental look at Cities. If it's B.) then by god we need to radically change

1 Response: Reply To This...
Stephen DouglasJune 17th 2013.

There are 50+ spaces on my section of my street alone. They definitely have much lower utilization than a year or two back, but the argument about what's happened to the people who used to be using them is a complex one.

Anne FordJune 17th 2013.

Is this just the back lash of the council losing the City Centre Congestion Charge a few years ago? So they can bring it in by the back door and ultimately drive private vehicles out?

2 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

What a load of paranoid nonsense.

StephJune 18th 2013.

Yes Anne it's pretty much that and the council know that nobody is going to stop them due to the apathetic nature of this city

Veronica WallerJune 17th 2013.

This may be our punishment for the Congestion Charge knockback. The traffic calming systems from Fallowfield to Manchester City Centre have in fact done exactly the opposite thereby extending the journey time despite the lack of traffic. Any so-called congestion would seem to be contrived. If these systems were removed the traffic would flow as previously thereby eliminating the need to close Oxford Road to motor cars from Hathersage Road. (This will of course put ALL the motor cars onto Upper Brook Street therefore CAUSING congestion) Manchester is not London. We have no underground. We have no alternative routes therefore we will suffer further contrived congestion. The public transport systems are dirty, uninviting and unsafe to passengers, particularly at night. The bus, train and metrolink fares are horrendous and prohibitive particularly for families. Bus fares on the Continent are normally 1 euro whatever the distance travelled. Manchester cannot cope with any further losses of visitor numbers and currently looks like a ghost town with shop and office closures due to the current economic situation. This has not been helped by the high parking charges and extended parking hours introduced by Manchester City Council. What is the Manchester Chamber of Commerce doing about all of this? Road closures and more buses will not address these problems.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
Anne FordJune 17th 2013.

Well said :-)

AnonymousJune 17th 2013.

Spot on. There was never any traffic problem in Manchester till the Councils started messing up the road system, and wasting transport funding on vanity schemes like the tram.

RalphtalkingJune 17th 2013.

It's amazing how stupid councillors are. They've seen town centres all over the country dying after restricting access to private cars and charging for on street parking. Now they're steadily ruining the city centre, whilst motorists vote with their feet and go to the Trafford Centre, or give up altogether and go online. I stopped going to the City Centre a few years ago, once it took me more time to negotiate the last mile than the previous ten, and cost me £8+ to park.

Poster BoyJune 18th 2013.

Home truth –the City needs to be extremely careful with an overt transportation policy which discourages private vehicles, increases the cost of visiting, reduces the availability of street parking, closes roads and promotes highway design schemes which inherently seek to cause inconvenience and delay, and so influence behaviour. A vibrant, thriving and economically viable city needs to be inclusive and the real danger is that the current anti-private vehicle politik will encourage the flight to the suburbs of shopping, restaurants and bars in ‘leafy green villages’, businesses and specifically the higher socio-economic groups with their incomes and choices. The result is the American model of city ghettoisation where cities become the preserve of lower, or supported, income groups, a lack of social cohesion and civic pride, tertiary retail and an absent diversity of culture and businesses that can no longer be supported. It is not disputed that a great City needs a great transport system, but it must evolve and it must include all means of travel and all types of people. It should not be a badge of honour that a majority of shoppers travel to Manchester Arndale by public transport. Such a policy results in an Aldi on one of Manchester’s prime shopping streets, and leakage of retail expenditure with the real money being spent in the Trafford Centre, along the A34, online etc. The City Council is embarking on a journey down a very dangerous road, too fast, too soon…

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 19th 2013.

What's wrong with the Aldi? It's well-used and meets a need for affordable food. Aldi and Tesco (Market Street) are the only decent size supermarkets in the city centre. The rest are all Tesco Express/Co-op/Sainsbury's Local stores, which have much smaller ranges (mostly ready meals/sandwiches) and are more expensive to shop in because they don't sell larger packages of ingredients.

SmittyJune 19th 2013.

anon you're quite right. Aldi is brill. The MEN reviewed their Toro Loco Tempranillo - £3.69 - which is an absolute bargain and lovely. Lidl on the other hand is getting very dear.

Poster BoyJune 25th 2013.

There is nothing 'wrong' with Aldi. But it's business model does not support paying high rents on prime shopping streets. Ergo, the point (about the Arndale/Market Street) is valid.

AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

I have lived in this city for 6 years having come up from London and the City Council has got so many things wrong, IMO. I think the second city crossing will be a huge waste of money and will further restrict any footfall the centre very much needs. As well as causing huge disruption. I agree with the posts above saying a centralised fare system and "oyster" type payment method for the trains, buses and trams is vital. As well as well thought out stations on the outskirts of the city with ample parking. Sadly, nothing the council has done of late has inspired me to continue living here and I am already planning my escape back down south.

Lisa GoddardJune 18th 2013.

As a small business owner, I make deliveries to the city centre using my car, rather than running a van. This would cause me and many other small businesses a lot of trouble

LuggyJune 18th 2013.

Just walk down King Street and see the impact this sort of policy has on Manchester.

AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

I think the impact of the decision to postpone the revaluation of business rates is an equally if not more significant factor in the viability of retail businesses than the availability of cheap parking - of which there is plenty in and around the city centre. The government have taken the decision to postpone this exercise until after 2017, despite the cacophony of protests from the many businesses outside London whose rates do not reflect their rental costs - many of which have being steadily coming down whilst those in London have been rising. In effect retail businesses outside the capital are subsidising those inside. The government have come up with no sensible reason for the delay. Why are people not more angry about that? Oh, and there is the small thing about the rise of internet shopping too. But yes, our local Council must play its part and recognise the reality of our city ensuring it is as accessible as possible for different socio-economic groups. But balancing that with ensuring that transport corridors that have limited capacity (like roads) can accommodate the maximum traffic flow at peak times is tricky. That is essentially what the congestion charge and associated improvements was about, and it is what any sensible transport strategy is about too. I suspect that as public transport becomes better quality, more reliable, cleaner and more convenient it will be a more attractive option for more groups of people - including the ABC1s that seem to constitute the majority of the ranters on this site.

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

I cannot agree more with Poster Boy's comments. As an inpedendent operator I have seen customer numbers at Tampopo Albert Square drop by over 10% in the last 3 years. That is not sustainable. The combination of reduced street parking and the calamitous 8pm charges has meant that there is nowhere affordable and safe to park on the Albert Sq side of town. This has materially affected some key customers. It is much moreexpensive for the pre and post theatre crowd to dine in the city. Many of my friends with families who live in the burbs make city visits only as special occassions, deferring rather to Didsbury or the Trafford Centre as it is easier and cheaper. Their loss you may say. It is my loss too. It is also the governments loss. The single biggest beneficiary of us opening our doors is the Inland Revenue. In 15 years. I conservatively estimate that over £4m has been paid to the Revenue as a result of the Tampopo Albert Square alone. That is for one 64 seater restaurant. The main point however is what kind of city centre do we want. One that currently penalises those that do not have access to or are not fit and able to use public transport is verging on the immoral. We have an ageing population and access to events by the dreaded car is a fundamental mode of transport for many for whom public transport is simply not an option. Some may point to the success of the City Centre since 1997. I applaud the council for what it has done and say to many that Mcr is the city where I am happy to pay business rates. But just think how better it could be. Some also point to nights like tonight (Robbie Williams). But I ask you to to the city centre most other Tuesday evenings where the roads are quiet, the expensive parking is plentiful and the city is emptying with commuters heading home. My friends fromthe south unanimously comment "Its all so quiet" This is not the city that I want to live in. Trust me Leeds (my home town) is all the worst for it. I want Mcr to be truly global city. A hospitality industry relying on weekend trade alone is not the way to get there.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
SteJune 18th 2013.

Well said David. As someone who works and lives in the city centre I too have seen a decline in footfall and vehicular traffic since the council started it's war on the car. Obviously you've made your opinions very clear and we've seen other notable business owners say the same on ManCon over the past year, is there nothing that can be done to bring all of these opinions together? Surely then the council would pay attention.

AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

Another part of the solution is preventing any more urban sprawl and start filling in some of the gaping holes in our urban fabric with high quality, spacious modern homes with excellent facilities. Such an aspiration means loosening the iron grip that largest volume house builders and land speculators have in dictating the development of our city and tipping power and resources back in favour of ordinary residents.

CrankyacidJune 18th 2013.

What a predictable load of preconceived, nonsense comments this has attracted. Put your head in the sand and hope increasing traffic will not finally strangle the health and financial well being out of the city or look to find solutions for a modern human scaled city that is not subservient to the car. That's the choice. I know Mcr Confidential view busy, congested streets as a sign of vibrancy but that's frankly wrong. I have visited countless continental towns and cities and once the fresh foreignness off it all wears off you are left with once beautiful places now utterly subservient to the movement and parking of private cars. Tourists and locals alike clinging to the sides of streets. Contrary to knee-jerk 'common sense' there is a massive amount of proof that lessening the dominance of cars on our streets is beneficial to local businesses and very good for places we live in. A good cycle lane and pleasant path brings in far more spending than the parked cars occupants do. Frequent low spending trumps the every-now-and-then big spenders many times over. Don't believe me? Here's one for a start from TfL: www.ctc.org.uk/…/1111_tfl_town-centre-study_rep_0.pdf… So what if a few Cheshire out of towners decide that a once a month trip into a fancy restaurant or Vidal's is no longer worth the effort. For every penny they spend hundreds more will be spent by people enjoying a city worth walking or cycling around, no longer feeling like a poor rejected relation to the driver. The city cannot compete with out of town Malls in terms of parking ease but it wins without competition on retail variety, individuality, culture and history. As people rediscover this and as infrastructure turns away from slavishly pandering to cars and starts to put people first the situation will improve in a virtuous spiral. Yes we need access for cars, and businesses need access for loading and to function, but the balance is way skewed in favour of cars and it's time is up. Bring it on and stop the fear of the oh-so-necessary change to come. I do not believe in some strange utopia of pedestrianised streets lined with nothing but continental style cafe and happy folk picnicking with kids in the road but we are a million miles away from any middle ground. Oh, and finally, I own and drive a car, own a motorbike and run a small business in the city centre. I cycle in most days because it's more fun, healthier and quicker and would love Manchester to become the sort of place that many, many more of its residents would feel they can do the same.

3 Responses: Reply To This...
Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

I also own and drive a car, co-own and run a small business in the city centre. I cycle in most days because it's more fun, healthier and quicker and would love Manchester to become the sort of place that many, many more of its residents would feel they can do the same.

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

I also live close to a tram stop. I am not old. I do not have very small children. I have an optimistic view of the world and enjoy taking public transport generally with little/no fear. All is good in the world. I'm laughing. Public transport works just fine for me as a consumer. That is not the point.

CrankyacidJune 18th 2013.

But maybe the point is that very many more people could easily follow your example but do not. If they did then the roads would be better for those who have to drive on them the due to infirmity, disability or for the delivery of goods and services. People need to be able to choose but there is currently not a choice for many because the system is set up so roads are for cars and public transport is for the poor. Outside of that you take your chances and now is the time for the balance to be reset.

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

I am a 67 year old widow. I live off a state pension and a small nurses pension. I live on Meadow Road in Urmston. I drive a Nissan Micra. I would like to see the Saddleworth Brass band at the Bridgewater Hall. There are some seats for £12.50. The show starts at 7.00 pm. I would get a tad anxious if I am not there in plenty of time, so need to be at the Hall for 6:30pm. The show finishes at 9:45pm. I have sore hip but not so much so that I have seen any one about it yet. I really should. I would love to head in before the show for a bite to eat as it has been a while. Can someone please tell the best way to get there and back.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

Lets say there are thousands of similar people wanting to get into the city to enjoy its amenities. What would be the most efficient way of allowing so many people to get into the city centre to enjoy a concert and eat pan Asian cuisine in a nice restaurant? Not having a go, just putting it out there....

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

I am 33 years old with 2 young kids aged 6 months and 3 years. I own a Skoda. It cost me £600 second hand. I use to go to my place of work - a school in Hulme. I live in Irlam. My partner works on a Sunday. I would like to go to visit MOSI this Sunday as I heard it may be closing soon. I hope its not because there is not enough visitors. Can someone please tell me the best wayto get there and back.

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 18th 2013.

Lets say there are thousands of young parents wanting to get into the city to enjoy its amenities. What would be the most efficient way of allowing so many people to visit these popular tourist attractions? How can we ensure our museums, galleries, shops, restaurants, convention centres, gig venues and so on have access to the largest possible market at peak times? Again, just putting it out there.

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

As many modes of transport as possible! None gratuitously penalised on price or accesability.

CrankyacidJune 18th 2013.

There is nothing gratuitous about penalties on car parking. A huge amount of public land is effectively handed over to drivers for parking. This is essentially a subsidy with the deal being that those drivers will bring spending and work to the city. Research has now shown that more money and work would be brought in by using this space to make the roads and paths better for pedestrians and cyclists. I'm not talking about closing roads, just about allowing more people access to them in safety and encouraging those who could try other means to do so.

A FoxJune 18th 2013.

I am not a David, I am a Fox. Woof.

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

It is with some irony that I am sitting on tram at 10:50 pm with a scally as company shouting down his phone that his face is bruised because someone has "tried to nick his fekking phone". Don't get me wrong, part of the reason I love this city is its rich tapestry. I'm just glad I'm not a 65 yr old widow from Urmston....

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

If I was I just might give an evening gjg in Mcr City centre a miss next time. And we'll all be the poorer for it.

Hero
David FoxJune 18th 2013.

Hopeless link. Just realised I'm 2 years younger. Apologies to the pedants.

CrankyacidJune 18th 2013.

People drive their cars to the Trafford Centre. Queue to park for 'free' so they can spend hours walking in traffic free environment. Oh wait.. we could compete with that by subsidising parking in the city centre and encouraging more and more cars into it, making it a congested, polluted nightmare. That'll bring them scurrying back. Oh hang on..

2 Responses: Reply To This...
GordoJune 19th 2013.

Cranky, Italia, San Rocco, L'entrecote, all shut or shutting. I know of three more who are their knees. Pollution? You've no idea about pollution, cars today are angels compared with what they were twenty years ago. When I was a kid, we had to have tar lamps line the streets for us to get to school. Soon, you will start to pay more tax to cover what the council are loosing in business tax, next, the price of your property will drop, next, more people will leave manchester, next, the tax you will be paying to live in tumbleweed will mean that you will be out on the streets, having been made bankrupt by... THE BLOODY COUNCIL

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

San Rocco was dead, Entrecote a mistake hyped by Man Con and Damson is coming! Price of property dropping.... ?Are you moving out Gordo to a posh suburb near the Trafford Centre (Damson is there too).

Hero
David FoxJune 19th 2013.

Just between 6pm and 8pm, after 1pm on a Saturday and all day Sunday. The older generation and those with young families who do not have access to local transport can then more easily visit this great city thus making it all the more diverse and inclusive whilst at the same time making sure the city is not the preserve of the 25-35 year olds and all will be good in the world.....

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 19th 2013.

David, that is an excellent idea. Full of common sense. The likelihood of the council listening.......low

SmittyJune 19th 2013.

Can someone, without shouting at me or being nasty, explain how the entire city centre's economy collapses because people have to pay to use the, what, 2,000 pay and display parking spaces in the city centre? If Manchester's economy is completely reliant on those spaces then there's something seriously wrong. Alternatively, I'm out in the city most weekends along with tens of thousands of other people and it looks pretty busy. Mind you the terribly late licensing hours plays havoc with my liver and sleep patterns. If I'm out during the week and not drinking I actually find the pay and display availability quite useful. I earn a good wage, not enormous, but decent. And for me a fiver or whatever it is to park up between 6 and 8 isn't going to kill. It certainly doesn't stop me going out and I have never, in my thirtywhatever years, heard one single person say "No I'm not going to go to Manchester city centre because of the outrageous pay and display charges". Never once, except on here and I'm not sure I believe you! So why don't we all just chill out a bit, bemoan the parking by all means but, really, it's not exactly important. Is it? xx

6 Responses: Reply To This...
TomJune 19th 2013.

The whole idea of shopping is to take your time whilst you ponder buying, its suppose to be an experience to shop in places like Manchester not to keep looking at your watch to see how much time you have left before you get fined for over staying your time in the city. Its one thing to charge local shops business rates then charge a second tax onto the customers you expect to come to see you. What do you get for your parking ticket? does it offer value for money? thats a simple question! what expense has the council occured to provide you with a car parking space? If councils want shop premises to be full, then they must aid parking zones across the city.

SteJune 19th 2013.

It puts people off living in the city because if you have a car and no parking space then you're screwed. Less city centre residents = less money in local shops and less being paid in council tax.

AnonymousJune 19th 2013.

If you live in the city with a car you could have selected one of the many apartments with a parking space. Of course these cost more, just as apartments with a better view or more space cost more. if you can't afford it then you can chose to live elsewhere, as millions of others do.

SmittyJune 20th 2013.

Thanks guys. Tom - your implication seems to be that parking should be free in all places at all times. Which seems a bit, well, unlikely. Ste - there's not many empty apartments in the city centre, is there?

Hero
Manc GuyJune 20th 2013.

Well said SMITTY.

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

It doesn't Smitty (see this report in Man Cons beauty section www.bodyconfidential.co.uk/…/The-Future-Of-Manchester-Retail…

Jonathan MoranJune 19th 2013.

Where is Pat Karney when we need the self styled "city centre spokesman" when we need him?!

TomJune 19th 2013.

I represent the city of Salford private hire association as chair I hope that many of you will support PHVs being allowed access to all parts of Manchester at tonight’s meeting 19/6/13. For those that don’t support PHVs being allowed, I expect you don’t fully understand the meaning of door to door transport and why so many passengers use this service over all other transport providers, not only the elderly and the disabled use PHVs, its everyone from high ranking businessman to shoppers, think of a couple going on a night out, do you honestly expect a lady or gent to get dressed up and get onto a bus and walk in the rain to a restaurant or theatre? Or how do you expect a businessman to get to the airport or train station at 6am when most would have to take several buses that don’t exist at 6am to get where they want too. Its time that AGMA and TfGM did some proper ground work and find out why so many people prefer to use PHVs over any other form of transport, and stop this nonsense, PHVs and Taxis play an important part in integrated transport who states so TfGM and there words and I quote "Door -to- Door Transport” "Door to door transport{e.g. taxis and private hire vehicles, community transport, demand responsive transport and ring and ride} is vital for people who are not able to use conventional public transport, it also has the potential to improve local accessibility, particularly linking communities with jobs, in areas where public transport does not provide these links. It can, therefore, play a significant role in increasing productivity in the conurbation. We will work with taxi licensing authorities to provide a more consistent approach across the conurbation." I only ask since this statement was made in 2011 by TfGM what work has been achieved in working with the PH or taxi trade in Greater Manchester? as chair of the city of Salford private hire association no one has contacted me or the Manchester PH association to enhance the service we give to the local economy, try putting a price on that service we give to the local economy day and night 24 hours a day 7 days a week in all weathers? How would the city centre remove thousands of night time revellers on a Saturday night? How would the police cope with no PHVs to disperse the crowds? If this goes through, PH passengers, shop keepers and the city it self will lose out, the residents of Greater Manchester threw out the congestion charge and the benefits to public transport it offered. Councillors you are wrong to presume PHVs are only used by the minority in Greater Manchester, bus companies want that custom and by only listening to those companies you are avoiding what the people of GM want and that is transport of there own choice when and when they need it. Bus lanes were put in years ago when no technology was available, today Transport for London filters out hundreds of motorists a day who haven’t paid, so why not invest in technology to police areas of concern; you certainly do at Victoria train station 24 hours day when we have no buses running 24 hrs a day. View all transport providers "EQUAL" or fold up TfGM because not all transport providers are being treated equal and before you decide kindly read the equality act.

CitizenandrewJune 19th 2013.

it seems the City Council and TfGM have lost the confidence of voters in their management of the city centre. We need to question the candidates in local elections on their views on parking fees, bus lanes and 'get me there' ticketing. Maybe vote for change?

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 19th 2013.

What exactly is wrong with this strategy?

Melvin TaylorJune 20th 2013.

Why we VOTE these people into the council I don't know, there is not one who has any Idea about business and what the council are doing to KILL this Great City of Ours, with over priced parking, traffic wardens give tickets out until the early hours of the morning, and the rates are just a killer. Councillors should get off their FAT A--ES and take a walk around the City centre and see how many Businesses have closed and how many people have been put out of work because of their CRAZY IDEAS! , It will not be long before we have a ghost town. King street is already three quarters there. Maybe Richard Lees should take the £330K he wants to spend on another useless piece of metal for the Ethan Stadium and unblock the roads he and his team have blocked up since he did not get the congestion charge, I’m sure he thinks we are all stupid! As for Cllr Nigel Murphy, MCC, and Cllr Andrew Fender, Chair of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee, they have not got a clue. I could do their job better!

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

When my firm first decided to open an office in the city centre it was a prestiguse selling point to our clients, as 80% worked or lived within the city and those who did not enjoyed coming into the city as a treat even making a day out of it. But despite our business growing our costs are rising 2 fold due to less and less clients being based in the city and we have to travel out, more are moving out due to costs, it is no longer a treat getting in for the clients that live in the more remote parts of the region and others are working further afield due to companies finding manchester a less prestigious place to invest in and relocation a much cheaper option, we also lose far more working hrs with the staff that travel on public transport then the ones who use their own cars, we also found that ppl who use their on transport are more likely to hang around and spend more time and money in the city then the ones who are rushing to catch the next bus, tram, train out..... So if business like the one I work for carry on like this we have to start looking for more affective options which will drive us out of the city, taking with us, clients, staff and money.

3 Responses: Reply To This...
Hero
Manc GuyJune 20th 2013.

Odd...as every car owning colleague of mine has had more sick days and emergency days than I've had in over ten years. Do you think it's all down to the stress of driving into the city?

Hero
Manc GuyJune 20th 2013.

It's the 21st century. Aren't more people Skype and video conferencing, hot desking and working from home?

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

Maybe the germ ridden, public transport system has helped you build a better immune system to them?? Lol

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

Absolutely, although some ppl still prefer human contact, it would be better for these businesses to left everyone work from home, no travel needed, buy everything online keep cars off the road, let city centre offices become a thing of the past, leaving home be a walk around the park basis only, that is how to keep an economy going...... By the way , I don't have a car, I walk to work in the city centre through the murk off the dirty bus fumes but being realistic, you can't keep a city centre alive with public transport alone I'm sorry...

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

I find it difficult to understand the repeated cry of "Just look at King Street" with regards to the parking situation "RUINING" the city. The North West in general has been hit with disproportionate public funding cuts by central gov while 20b (that's Twenty Billion!) is spent on Trident for what purpose I don't know, the normal working people have been plodding along under "austerity" measures for what, seven years now. Meanwhile the Manchester shopping street which has traditionally housed the high end luxury goods retailers has started to get gaps in it's pearly white smile.. and people are blaming parking? Are the people that spend £20,000 on a Gucci bag really put off by a marginal hike in on street parking, or is it that everybody's had their pockets picked for no good reason and can't really support these places? This doesn't even take into account people choosing to shop online, maybe King Street's just had it's day until they find a business model that works or we have some more disposable income to throw around on luxuries.

1 Response: Reply To This...
Dave MartinJune 25th 2013.

Good point but maybe that's why its not the best time to be doing this, or at least they might bring the changes in gradually. There weren't ever many free parking spaces in truth, prior to the changes, since many would be taken during the evening/weekend by shop & bar workers. However the perception that you *could* get free parking was enough to draw many people in to visit a museum or the theatre, go for lunch etc. even if most of the time you would likely end up in an NCP.

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

Personally I think the plans are great, it'll be easier and safer to walk, take public transport, and cycle around Manchester. Those who want to pay through the nose to drive and park can do.

TomJune 20th 2013.

After attending the meeting last night, I would say the plans must go back to the drawing board. PHVs must be allowed to roam freely around the city and all the bus lanes should be evaluated independently starting with Victoria Train Station approach during the hours of 12pm to 4am. If this is done places like the Print Works will Flourish and the congestion around the Print Works will be eleviated. So much could be learnt from Shudehill bus station, why hasn't this station allowed for passenger drop off and pick up, this is integrated transport at its worse. Who is responsible for this? More Parking meters are needed across the city and the time at these meters should be examined and changed to meet the demands of shoppers. It's better allowing up to 5 hrs stay rather than just half an hour, it's no good charging excessive parking fees as this goes against people shopping.. It's time for councillors to go on foot and look at these problems as PH drivers and shoppers would rather than look at these problems as an individual who is looking at these issues through his own personal needs. Look at how these shoppers and diners get into Manchester its not just Mancunians using the city, in places like Salford we don't have a city centre, town is Manchester and the Manchester economy is being fed by Salford PHVs carrying Salford people into Manchester, take away Salford PHVs and you take away the Salford customers. TfGM must take all transport providers equal and that includes black cabs and private hire vehicals, to exclude PHVs in this road scheme shows they are not treating all transport services equal nor there passengers.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

I support you access in a PHV to the bus lanes and now they play an important part in PUBLIC TRANSPORT in the City, but I am not sure you Manchestrer registered colleagues would support it.

Jonathan SchofieldJune 20th 2013.

FULL REPORT AND COMMENT ON THE MEETING ON CONFIDENTIAL - Monday 24 June

AnonymousJune 20th 2013.

I see the report of the 'City Centre Trasport Plan meetings has been has been censored (by the threatened updates?)

TomJune 24th 2013.

Message for Jonathan Schofield where is the full report on Wednesdays meeting?

5 Responses: Reply To This...
Jonathan SchofieldJune 24th 2013.

Massively sorry for the delay on this. It is coming

Nigel MurphyJune 25th 2013.

Are you looking for a rusty spanner? I may be able to help! N

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

Nigel Murphy wrote I may be able to help here - Are you looking for a rusty spanner? give us a clue what your on about then?

Nigel MurphyJune 26th 2013.

Jonathan has changed his rant above, it originally said if the review wasn't up he'd saw off his leg with a rusty cycle spanner, hence my question!

Jonathan SchofieldJune 26th 2013.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, but had the day from hell yesterday what with my mail being hacked and then losing ten years of contacts as a consequence. Nigel bring that spanner along at two pm if this story hasn't been posted.

AnonymousJune 24th 2013.

17.15 on Monday 24th June just five hours to go Jon. Are you besieged by Clasksonites wielding jacks and gear sticks? Knock it all down ,,, the car is king.. you can even live in some of them.

AnonymousJune 24th 2013.

Tell em they can rent a car parking space in the City Centre for £100.00 per month. Fancy you own little place where you can come and go when you like. Its comparable with the cost of a year's TfGM travel but of course you would not travel alone.

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

Its 1150 Tues 25/6/03 so its ten minutes to zero hours for Jon.s report on the City Centre Transport Plan meeting. Lets see what happens

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

Another missed deadline. Anyone know what happened at the meeting which makes this report so difficult to write? Did they throw Dum Sum at each other, or Chinese stuffed buns?. Was a transcript made or a tape. Maybe we could just have the podcast Or was there no one there so we are expecting a work of fiction? Anyone want to try writing the latter?

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

Well I attended the debate, at the end of the meeting everyone was asked are you happy with the changes not one hand went up, PH operators and local busineses were unempressed with the outcome. One Manchester council sat amongst the crowd stated I prefer to use PHVs as getting in them in is much easier.

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

Interesting. Here is a report of a previous meeting. It's not specifically about the plans but they were available before it was held and indeed those of use who were interested had been told the consultation was imminent. www.bodyconfidential.co.uk/…/The-Future-Of-Manchester-Retail…

AnonymousJune 26th 2013.

Thanks Anon. That is a least some information. No one said they were happy and commercial people were unimpressed, and some one thinks PHV are easier to get into.

AnonymousJune 26th 2013.

On the commercial people six months ago they were not much concerned. www.bodyconfidential.co.uk/…/The-Future-Of-Manchester-Retail…

GordoJune 25th 2013.

Anon directly above, do you not know that Jonathan is a busy man, like me, eating. This isnt the Grauniad, were an Indie with its heart in the right place and limited budgets; however, nothing worth having is ever easy to get, relax, its on its way...

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

I assume you'd have the same attitude if your food was late Gordo?!

AnonymousJune 25th 2013.

Well after asking Jonathan when will this site address the findings of the meeting he stated yesterday "Massively sorry for the delay on this. It is coming" its already gone from Friday to Monday and now its still not on the site. If its not on this site tonight, I wont be attending any more meetings in Town or comming on this web site again. Perhaps councillors and TfGM would like that!, not expressing an opinion as a private hire driver, why should they, as they have never seeked the opinions of the private hire trade before. After looking at one comment on this page I looked up the word Clasksonites in the dictionary I dont seem able to find the word, can anyone help?

1 Response: Reply To This...
Jonathan SchofieldJune 25th 2013.

Anon. Bless. I spent the whole of this morning trying to sort some vicious hack attack from Nigeria out on my emails - check my Twitter account if you don't believe me. So what - it happens. Then in the afternoon I had to do another live gig. I will work tonight to get the story finished. And maybe in the morning. Just like a cabby. Oddly enough Confidential led on this and spent our free time supporting you.

Alex24June 25th 2013.

I usually can't be bothered commenting on here but are you for real? You're not the editor and you don't employ the writers on here do you? - because the way you're holding them to account makes it seem like you are.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
SmittyJune 25th 2013.

Oh for god's sake leave him alone. He's just been mugged in Manila and needs two grand urgently!

Jonathan SchofieldJune 25th 2013.

Smitty please could you send me that two grand? This cell is too warm and there's a man with an ugly moustache staring at me. He's not Northern Quarter bar staff either.

AnonymousJune 26th 2013.

Ah well too late too late for this report : not even here on the closing date for representations, (now extended at Man Cons request no doubt.) But why? Are there any good rumours about what is happening or not as the case may be.?

AnonymousJune 26th 2013.

The most important issue here is you have until the 5th July to make a point to AGMA,TfGM and Manchester Council. www.tfgm.com/…/News.aspx… in the meanwhile why not try reading yesterdays MEN and read what appears to be a cooled down version of what local businesses feel, I cant remember anyone mentioning PHVs in that MEN report yet most of those businesses present at the meeting did. In reply to Alex24, I paid £20 for taxis to attend the meeting and took time off work unpaid, any debate needs to be follwoed up by a campaign which needs to make the most of publicity and you need to keep that media attention / pressure on. I remember councillor Murphy stating at the meeting he has read all the comments on Manchester confidential prior to the meeting starting and the name Nigel Murphy appears on these comments twice over the past few days, yesterday being the last time. I may be wrong to assume that this is it the same Nigel Murphy who is the Manchester councillor who attended the meeting. So like I said once the pressure is on you have to keep it on. So with him viewing the comments only yesterday I would say thats two missed chances of seeing an un-edited version on what local businesses feel. I also remember councillor Murphy asking me to send over to him Salfords A10 policy on new builds in relation to having drop off and pick up points for both Black cabs and private hire vehicles at any new large build which I have now sent twice now, That policy was sent to his department back in May 2012 and at the meeting, So why hasnt TfGM and AGMA picked up on that planning policy on transport needs at any new build of great size ?surely if it applies in Salford then it should appear in Manchester? Or isnt Manchester University on Oxford Road big enough?

AnonymousJune 30th 2013.

MISSING Most of my background reference are mentioned here But TfGM DOES NOT CONTROL BUSES. They can go where they like charge what they like and run when they like so long as they post a timetable and keep to it. The regulator is the Transport Commissioners who did put UK Buses off the Road and sanction First for not keeping to its timetable. Anyone can complain but you would be expected to raise it with the operator first. You might try it with Stage Coach Magic bouncing Buses on Oxford Road and beyond . Express concern for the drivers H&S as well and send a copy it to the UNITE Union. You need SC's bus fleet number and the time / location. A email to SC Office when you get off and have stopped shaking? If no satisfactory answer send sic different ones to the Commissioners. We need a franchise system in Manchester as in London but quality of some London Buses and roads is poor. PS don't forget to tell MCC about potholes. On the web site there is a way of reporting them but just mail Contact@Manchester.Gov.uk with a pic and location. (nearest street light number) cc to councillor.

AnonymousJune 30th 2013.

If you put money into a parking meeting at say 19.45 in the City Centre you will get a ticket which says 08.15. the next day. What is this all about?

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