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Cenotaph Relocation Complete

St Peter's Square cenotaph moved 100m away to 'superior setting' as part of space rethink

Published on September 8th 2014.


Cenotaph Relocation Complete
 

WORKS to relocate the St Peter's Square cenotaph as part of a Metrolink expansion and wider St Peter's rethink have been completed.

“In moving the cenotaph we have finally realised a truly distinctive area of the city centre that is fitting to the memorial and a real tribute to those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our city and our country."

The cenotaph now has a 'superior setting' at the Cooper Street entrance to the Town Hall, a mere stones throw from its original spot (erected in 1924) outside the Central Library, creating a wider and brighter public space for commemorative events.

Works started back in January 2014 to allow development of the Metrolink Second City Crossing (due to finish in 2017) following consultation with war veteran groups, heritage and conservations specialists and church authorities - support for the relocation and new design has been broad.

St Peter's Square and former cenotaph locationSt Peter's Square and former cenotaph location in front of Central Library

Portland stone (the preferred stone for cenotaphs, including the Whitehall memorial) has been used to match the stone used when the cenotaph was originally designed by Sir Edwin Lutyens. Expert carvers have been brought in to re-cut weathered lettering and conservation works have been carried out to 'museum standard'.

The new design has been heavily influenced by Lutyens’ original, which was changed after World War Two to integrate a garden area of quiet contemplation.

Further to the relocation of the cenotaph and to allow the Metrolink Second City Cross tracks and tram stop to be constructed, the St Peter’s Cross – which marks the location of the demolished church once on the site – will be placed in storage and returned when the works are completed.

Cenotaph's new locationCenotaph's new location

Sir Richard Leese, Leader of Manchester City Council, said: “In moving the cenotaph we have finally realised a truly distinctive area of the city centre that is fitting to the memorial and a real tribute to those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our city and our country.

“Respect for what the cenotaph represents has always been central to these plans and we thank the veterans’ and heritage groups for their input. The completion this week will allow veterans and members of the public enough time to familiarise themselves with the new cenotaph ahead of the 2014 Remembrance Sunday commemoration in November.”

Fencing will remain surrounding the new cenotaph until public realm works in St Peter’s Square in front of the refurbished Town Hall Extension and Central Library are completed at the end of September.

Coinciding with the completion, a service will be held to mark the relocation of the cenotaph in October.

More here.

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178 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

AnonymousSeptember 8th 2014.

I've been watching the progress for months. It looks fantastic all cleaned up and the paving and seating's really smart. Not sure how the parade will work in November. It'll be cramped until St. Peter's Square's completed, but then there's the relocation the tram platform...ughhh!

AnonymousSeptember 8th 2014.

Oh manchester! I can't think of any other city where a war memorial has been moved on top of a (destroyed) peace garden which was allowed to go into "managed decline". very respectful.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
Pokey CrumbleSeptember 8th 2014.

Welllllll.... considering how specific that scenario is, it's pretty meaningless to suggest that no other city has done it!

AnonymousSeptember 8th 2014.

The cenotaph was around seventy years before the 'pit' was created. It was a dodgy bit of grass after working hours. Even the plaque commemorating the opening of the Metrolink has gone. The really sad thing was the destruction of the trees that surrounded it.

AnonymousSeptember 8th 2014.

Ha ha! Spot on.

Ghostly TomSeptember 8th 2014.

I've always thought that war memorials were places where we came to think about the futility of war and to mark the passing of people who sacrificed themselves. They were not put up to glorify war. The Cenotaph looks wonderful where it is now. The Peace Gardens were run down and shabby and needed an overhaul. I hope they can fins a space somewhere for the statue of the lady with the pigeons. I loathed it at first by put grew to quite like it. And 'Adrift' was in the square for about 10 minutes before the work began. Hope that comes back as well.

JenkinsSeptember 8th 2014.

The thing is the Peace Gardens were a hippy ideal based upon general niceness, the world has proved itself different, sadly. We will need War Memorials more than Peace Gardens I fear if we are to be strong in the face of murderous quasi-regimes such as ISIS/ISL

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 8th 2014.

Kill 'em all.

AnonymousSeptember 9th 2014.

Which is unfortunately the Islamic State's philosophy

AnonymousSeptember 9th 2014.

Exactly. No protests in the U.K. over any of that BS then? We will unite when our backs are to the wall.

AnonymousSeptember 8th 2014.

Interesting how the plan to move the Cenotaph was to move it away from the trams and give it more space.... well until they move the tram station, increase it's size and add tramlines to Princess Street. Vanity project.. nothing more.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
Pokey CrumbleSeptember 8th 2014.

Except the new location of the tram station will be much further than the existing one was, giving the Cenotaph much more breathing space.

Calum McGSeptember 9th 2014.

Exactly. It's now in a far superior location. Looks fantastic.

AnonymousSeptember 9th 2014.

I think they have done a really great Job, It would still be better in the centre of the square where it was but its been a very sensitive and well executed move which has improved that bit of public space. As to the peace garden what better case for peace than a memorial to the close to 1m British soldiers killed in WW1.

SmittySeptember 9th 2014.

Stunning. Previously it was a traffic island between the tram and the road. This is beautiful.

Agent BlackSeptember 9th 2014.

Cracking idea this, I used to walk past it all the time and you just don't notice it as a traffic island

AnonymousSeptember 9th 2014.

Looking good...What am not happy about is the trams going past..ALSO the powers that be have not seen other systems, like that in Nice, where the trams power up before riding through the centre, so NO overhead wires..Sad that Manchester is a bit of a mess and cluttered as a result......

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 18th 2014.

You're not comparing like with like though. The Nice system is only 5 miles long, not to mention the fact that technology moved on a fair bit in the 15 years between Metrolink opening, and the system in Nice.

AnonymousSeptember 10th 2014.

I saw about 20 skateboarders gazing longingly at it through the fences the other day.

5 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 10th 2014.

Ha, I never thought of that. Wait for the grafitti and the litter too :)

Ghostly TomSeptember 18th 2014.

It's always been respected in its old position why will it not be respected in its new one?

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Well Ghostly Tom, the three teenage males that were skating all over it and marking the brand new walls and the seating with their skateboards had this to say. "We do respect the area but we need somewhere to skate, and until it's capped we'll keep skating here." They had no idea what the cenotaph was and didn't care that their skateboards were marking the new stone work. Ironically one of them was wearing a t-shirt with a Spitfire on it. When I asked why they didn't use the skate park under the Mancunian Way on London Road, their reply was because it wasn't free. Raised by wolves, the lot of them.

JuiceSeptember 29th 2014.

Sunday night at about 7pm? I think I saw you talking to them Anon. Well done, I wouldn't have had the nerve.

Ghostly TomSeptember 29th 2014.

I did hope I'd be proved wrong but, deep down, I feared that it would be damaged. In its old position it was safer and less of an attraction to vandals.

DavidSeptember 18th 2014.

Why are skateboarders considered such 'untouchables' when it comes to the police or council?.Do white male suburban kids have excemption from prosecution?.Skateboarding is banned but they ignore any law.This does not seem to apply to inner city kids,white or black.Even when they are given skate parks at great expense they still skateboard wherever they like.

1 Response: Reply To This...
Pokey CrumbleSeptember 18th 2014.

Dunno, must be Labour's fault somehow though eh?

DigsterSeptember 29th 2014.

Walked through on Wednesday evening after leaving the Bridgewater Hall. About 5 skateboarders and 2 bikes - not only were the boards scraping across the seats but the bikes were as well. I asked one of the boys to stop doing it as they were wrecking the furniture, the answer I got (after taking out the swear words) was tough. Just to add insult to injury, two of them started at the memorial then. Crying shame.

1 Response: Reply To This...
Tom HSeptember 29th 2014.

Everyone passing by the memorial needs to gently keep the pressure on these guys so they get the message that it's not acceptable.

JoanSeptember 29th 2014.

I'm pretty upset, but not totally surprised, to find some of our young people being so disrespectful. I'll be popping round late afternoon to have a look at the scuff marks that I've been sent pictures of. I'm happy to talk to these youngsters to ask why they're doing it and to explain why the majority are dismayed by their behaviour. If anyone is willing to join me, or has any other bright ideas, please email me cllr.j.davies@manchester.gov.uk

8 Responses: Reply To This...
Tom HSeptember 29th 2014.

Nice one Joan. I think gentle and informative is the right approach - I doubt these kids are being intentionally disrespectful.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

COMPLAIN HERE -> www.manchester.gov.uk/…/anti_social_behaviour…

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Not at all sure about gentle and informative...a visit to that new police station down the street and a whopping great fine to cover the cost of putting right the damage would be a better idea. Named and shamed in the MEN as well. They'll soon tell their mates especially if it hits them in their pockets.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Terrible that they're doing it and all, but lets not forget it wasn't long ago the powers that be moved them, and their friends, from a perfectly vibrant part of town, to sterilize it for a football museum.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

That was not a skateboard park,they had no right be there and they still there.One rule for the ferel White middle class and another for the working class ones,who are not excused for what do in Ancoats at canal in the same way.

Tom HSeptember 29th 2014.

Anon #3 - how do you reckon that the Cathedral gardens kids were moved on from the Urbis area because of the Football Museum? There were plenty of them last time I passed through a few weeks ago.

Tom HSeptember 29th 2014.

Anon #4 - no right to be there?! Apart from the common right to be in public places!

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

There is no such right.The owners of the land have every right to impose conditions on its use,and that includes banning skate boards

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Darn kids and their wheely-boards.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

COMPLAIN HERE -> www.manchester.gov.uk/…/anti_social_behaviour…

Rusty Tide MarksSeptember 29th 2014.

Why all the rusty tide marks all rounds the base of the semi circular 'seats', surely these could have been cleaned off? It does look a lot better in the new spot.

1 Response: Reply To This...
Ghostly TomSeptember 29th 2014.

I think it will be something rising out of the sub soil, you often get it with new builds. I seem to remember they had it with Queen Victoria after the did something with Piccadilly Gardens. I can't remember what they did to get rid of it but they did manage it.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

The council are 'scared' to touch these kids,because too many of them have got wealthy parents,with connections to the political,legal and police establishment in Manchester.The sort of people who will take legal action against the council if one of their kids gets arrested.Its been like this for years in Manchester,the police and council won't touch them. These kids don't need a talking to,they need to feel the full force of police action,and prosecution.They will laugh their head of if the likes of Joan come and talk to them,they don't care about the cenotaph or anything else they vandalise.Maybe if there were a few black faces or working class faces,the council would react differently,and lock them up.

1 Response: Reply To This...
JuiceSeptember 29th 2014.

How exactly do you suppose the average council / police operative distinguishes between 'working class faces' and wealthy middle class kids with parental connections? Sounds like paranoid delusions to me.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

The council are 'scared' to touch these kids,because too many of them have got wealthy parents,with connections to the political,legal and police establishment in Manchester.The sort of people who will take legal action against the council if one of their kids gets arrested.Its been like this for years in Manchester,the police and council won't touch them. These kids don't need a talking to,they need to feel the full force of police action,and prosecution.They will laugh their head of if the likes of Joan come and talk to them,they don't care about the cenotaph or anything else they vandalise.Maybe if there were a few black faces or working class faces,the council would react differently,and lock them up.

8 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

On what grounds would the parents take legal action against the council if they were arrested by the Police? That'd be nothing to do with the council.

JoanSeptember 29th 2014.

Anon 1: I am rarely so blunt, but your post is nonsense. BTW, the council does not possess the power to 'lock them up'.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

I think you will find Joan in the past the police and council did try to do something about skateboarders next to where the Football Museum is,and that did include prosecutions.But they soon gave up because of the parents of these kids. There nothing to stop you having law banning it,but you not got the guts to do it Joan.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Why do you have such a great amount of CCTV in the city centre Joan?.Is it not beyond your powers or the police to actually fine or arest them.Both you and GMP are useless in enforcing this and littering in the city centre.You are utterly spineless and don't care about the environment in the City centre.

juiceSeptember 29th 2014.

Stop being a c***, Anon#3. Joan's alright as councillors go, and she's not personally responsible for the failings of the council as an organisation.

juiceSeptember 29th 2014.

Also - there is really no point asserting things which you cannot prove to be true - only a fool will believe what they're told without evidence.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

As part of a council she IS responsible for the failings of the council as a whole especially as the council is made up entirely from one party.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Are they responsible for your failure to think logically?

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Perhaps ask them if they thought it would be ok to skateboard on their family's grave stones.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Have you seen the ages of some of these 'kids'.There no more sad site than blokes in their twenties still playing with skateboards.Also why are they all male and all White ?.Dont they like girls ?

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

It was a craze in the mid seventies that lasted about two years and now it's a sad white middle class sub culture for ugly people that have never owned a shirt and tie.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

I'm LOL'ing at people posting in internet comment sections calling people with active outdoor pursuits a "sad site". Well done chaps.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

@above Yet you've just typed the word 'LOL'ing'?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Having sex in the streets would be a active outdoor pursuit,but it's not allowed.Going to swim or running,does not involve vandalising war memorials either,and they healthy pursuits.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Skateboarding should be banned without exception in the city centre and anyone caught doing it should be fined and have their skateboard seized.And please stop appeasing them by Providing skateparks,often at taxpayers expense.

7 Responses: Reply To This...
rinkydinkSeptember 29th 2014.

Ha - an attitude straight from the dark ages

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Unless you provided to pay for the damage they do to,instead other tax payers,then shut up Rinkydink .You are just condoning vandalism.Its you who are in the dark ages.

AnonymousSeptember 29th 2014.

Anyone who skateboards in the city centre should be issued with a exclusion order,banning them from all the city centre.And if they break it,a spell in Prison,that would soon stop the problem.What the problem does not need is Middle class do gooders trying to to make excuses and understand them,because they will just laugh their heads off and carry on skating over the war memorial.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Do you wanna bring back the death penalty as well Anon?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

No, but public humiliation would be good though. Stocks. Rotten fruit. That sort of thing.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Like in the dark ages?

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Yes, but with Kiwi fruit. Besides some people in Manchester still want it to be the dark ages.

JoanSeptember 29th 2014.

I'm here now. A few councillors joined me after a meeting to see what was happening. People passing through do appear to appreciate the space and the design. Only one skateboarder, a young man of 20, who was not in the cenotaph area. He said he wouldn't skateboard there as it was disrespectful. There are some some marks and chips on the curved wall which need addressing. I'm going to speak urgently to colleagues, MCC staff and GMP to see how we can best address this.

50 Responses: Reply To This...
Staff
David BlakeSeptember 30th 2014.

We moved on four boarders last night around 9pm, Joan.

Poster BoySeptember 30th 2014.

Gold star David.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

I don't think these kids are being purposefully disrespectful. They've just happened to have found a great place to skateboard / bmx.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

If they're not trying to be disrespectful, then they are extremely thick.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

I wonder if the 'kids' skate on the cenotaph at Whitehall in London.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

What good is calling them thick? Why belittle them?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

They are thick and disrespectful.But it is only the middle aged fools who want to defend them,who deserve belittling.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Let's not be disrespectful if dog owners come and bring their dogs to use it as a toilet,or if drunks want to urinate on it.Lets try and understand them.and not judge them.

juiceSeptember 30th 2014.

Oh pipe down Anon, nobody is defending them, just trying to understand them in order to actually resolve the problem. You sound the sort of self-important trumpet who would never admit to once being young and foolish.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Juice you sound like just the type of Middle aged person who is trying to hang on to his youth,by thinking he can be down with kids.Its not the role of the police or council to understand,it's their job to enforce the rules.If the skateboarders don't like it tough,society is not their nanny.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

If they were punched, who would they complain to?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Some tear gas,truncheons and charging riot police might give these skateboarders the right type of talking to.

juiceSeptember 30th 2014.

Couldn't give a shit about being 'down with the kids' (I'm only in my early 30s in any case), I'm just bright enough to understand it's more effective to approach a problem thoughtfully rather than reacting to it. It IS the role of the police and council to understand people in order to do their job effectively and efficiently and without alienating people. You on the other hand sound like you've been watching too many episodes of Life on Mars. IT'S NOT REAL, SAM!!

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

We don't need to understand them. They are kids. They need to understand us and why what they are doing is causing so much outrage. Call it part of their growing up process. Part of the problem is the older generation trying to understand them. Anyone who's had adolescents will know this. Eventually you get to a point where you say this far and no further. As a community that's what we need to do.

JUICESeptember 30th 2014.

Great mindset, I'm sure your kids are totally well adjusted and harbour no resentment towards you as a result of your dehumanising attitude to young people.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Not sure who juice is aiming his dehumanising comment at. My kids are perfectly well adjusted and know not to go round vandalising sensitive monuments in the city. Putting them right when they are doing wrong is not dehumanising, it's called good parenting. Allowing them to do as they wish as and when ever they want leads to them becoming dehumanised, turning them into feral kids. It's attitudes like yours that have caused kids to think they can get away with anything they like.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

If you don't want to impose the law Juice,YOU and your kind pay for all the damage they do.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

The people of Manchester have the right to defend this war memorial from yobs,since GMP and Tony Lloyd clearly don't give a dam.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

If you in mid 30s you are middle aged Juice.

juiceSeptember 30th 2014.

Statements like 'we don't need to understand them', about any group, is dehumanising. Nowhere have I said that children should be allowed to go round doing what they like. My point is only about how the problem is approached.

juiceSeptember 30th 2014.

"If you in mid 30s you are middle aged" No you're not. Not unless you expect to die early. For what it's worth, a dictionary definition is :"the period of life between youth and old age, usually (in man) considered to occur approximately between the ages of 40 and 60" Okay with that?

JoanSeptember 30th 2014.

Anon: Have you ever watched Mad Men? It's about US advertising execs in late 50s early 60s. Don Draper, among the most successful and certainly no woolly-minded lefty liberal, seeks to understand consumers so he can more effectively change their minds. “to jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war”: Churchill ...a location-appropriate quote. Juice: are you apple, orange or pineapple?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

We don't need to understand them because we are adults and know what it's like to be a kid. It is not dehumanising. They have to understand us because they are kids and don't know what it's like to be an adult. Juice misses the point. His attitude with foster dehumanising as it will encourage kids to skateboard on cenotaphs because he says that if we put them right about it that would be dehumanising. And on a different point Joan's last comment makes no sense at all. We all might wish we lived in a world where we all could sit down and talk things through reasonably but we don't and sometimes a much sterner approach is needed.

JuiceOctober 1st 2014.

"because he says that if we put them right about it that would be dehumanising." I did not say that - if you have to put words in my mouth, or if you failed to understand what I actually said, you don't have an argument. Bye now.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

If they were punched, who would they complain to?

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Juice's attitudes to child rearing belong in the hippy dippy 60s. Time to move on I think....

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Wow. Juice is saying that when someone is doing something wrong, as part of the solution, you ask them to think about what they're doing and why. Do I want the skateboarders to stop doing this? Yes. Would my ideal scenario be for them to stop doing this, and to *understand why doing it could upset people*? Bigger yes! That's a much better outcome than forcing them to comply with authority without any kind of attempt to change or challenge their opinions and actions.

JUICEOctober 1st 2014.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I was trying to express. Thanks Anon.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Juice is guilty of moral appeasement.When someone is trying to steal your car you don't ask them to sit down an have a discussion about what is right or wrong.These skateboarders know what they are doing is wrong,the job of the police is to to stop and if necessary arrest them. Anyway by now people have talked to the skateboarders,what's Juice solution now,if they continue to do it?.Or is he just too gutless to want to ever punish criminals?

JUICEOctober 1st 2014.

"Moral appeasement" ?! That's brilliant. We're talking about children and adolescents, not hardened criminals or terrorists. Are you actually mental, or just a bit thick?

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

These are not kids mostly,they are in the late teens or twenties.Old enough to know right from wrong.Though you apparently don't think so Juice.Its time you grew up Juice and stopped your infantile appeasement of criminality.

juiceOctober 1st 2014.

It's time you headed back to the Daily Mail comments section for angry ignorant types, dear chap.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Defending the rights of posh,suburban kids,to vandalise is hardlly a sign of social enlightenment.More of a man trying to hang on to his long past youth,by association with much younger versions of himself.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

How do you know they're from the suburbs?

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Juice, just been to speak to these "kids" who were in their 20's, hardly too young to know better. I tried to speak to them and was told to "mind your own fu**ing business". I was neither confrontational or aggressive, I didn't have time to be. I am a pensioner recovering from cancer, so if anything I am a bit frail. If speaking to these you call " kids" won't work, what can be done?

juiceOctober 1st 2014.

Anon I'm not going to repeat myself, so you'll need to come up with something new if you're going to question my motives. Where have I done anything like 'defend the rights...' ? You're really not very good at this debate lark, are you?

juiceOctober 1st 2014.

Fine, if it's grown adults, arrest them and flog them to within an inch of their lives, or whatever. But I was talking about children.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Juice children aren't causing the damage. Children are closely watched by their parents. The ones who are causing the damage are teens and beyond who know perfectly well they are doing something wrong and don't give a damn. It's all about their own selfish pleasure. I have no objection to them skateboarding just don't do it here where they are causing offence to a lot of people. They understand this perfectly and don't need to be understood. And they don't need apologists for their behaviour like you. They don't need flogging for this but they do need their pockets lightening to repair the damage. Once that's been on TV and in the press it will certainly put the rest off. They will ignore people trying to understand them (see other anon above) but will understand the consequences of their actions when they lose money. I'm quite happy that they are put in orange hi vis vests while they repair the damage they have done as an alternative. Or would that be infringing their human rights in your world?

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

There seem to be several anons talking to you, Juice, about this. You seem to have hit a nerve and several different people have taken issue with your ideas. A lot of what is above I didn't post. I think you need to reconsider your ideas about how young people who have done something antisocial should be handled. Your ideas simply don't work.

JuiceOctober 1st 2014.

Where have I been an apologist for them? You're arguing with your own imagination, not anything I've actually said.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

We have two parts to this problem. One is the vandals who are ruining this sensitive part of the city. And the other problem is Juice and other people like them whose approach to the problem is actually exacerbating it. Vandals are going to take no notice of people like them and will be encouraged by their weak and ineffective attempts to stop them. Both problems need to be dealt with. I have decided which side of the problem is the most difficult one to deal with either. I'm a new anon btw...

JUICEOctober 1st 2014.

I am exacerbating the problem by arguing with people on the internet from my office miles away from the situation? Seriously, get lost.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Juice, the anon above your last comment said "other people like them.....exacerbating it" They did not state that you were exacerbating the situation by commenting on this thread. I think you are a lone voice, or one of a very small number. I tried talking, that didn't work, what do you suggest should be done when talking doesn't work. I stated that I got verbal abuse when I spoke to them.

JoanOctober 1st 2014.

I was there at approx 1.20pm today, Wednesday. It was busy, with plenty of office workers and shoppers enjoying the October sunshine. There were also two library staff working outside the building talking to the public. I'm both surprised and disappointed to hear only 40 mins later skateboarders were present and the anonymous pensioner above was sworn at. I'd ask Anon to report this incident, either to me [cllr.j.davies@manchester.gov.uk] or to the police desk conveniently situated on Lloyd Street.

JuiceOctober 1st 2014.

Anon starting "There seem to be several anons talking to you, Juice, about this...." Well, if people can't be bothered to use a unique name I will assume it's one person and argue as such. In regards to my 'ideas' - which ones specifically? I haven't even proposed any particular specific - I think people are disagreeing with what they've read into my very general points, rather than what I've actually said.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

If Juice doesn't like the word apologist to describe his position maybe they'd prefer the phrase vandal enabler. An enabler creates an atmosphere where people can go about their business, in this case vandalise, without fear of censure. Any vandals reading his/her comments can take comfort that at least one person on here is ready to support them. Because no one else in this thread seems to. I've seen the guys who are doing the vandalism. They are NOT children, they are late teens and young men of an age that know exactly what they are doing and appreciate that it is wrong but continue to do so. They don't need understanding, Juice, they need seeing off post haste. It's easy to see that there are several people posting to you. Look at the different styles, particular use of words, lengths of post etc. But what they all have in common is that your ideas to 'understand' these people are misguided. That's the polite word for it. Others may use other adjectives to describe it.

juiceOctober 1st 2014.

As I've already indicated, if children aren't involved then what I've been talking about isn't actually pertinent to the situation so there's no point getting you knickers in a twist about my opinions, because they don't apply to the problem we're talking about. Go and have a cup of tea and a sit down.

juiceOctober 1st 2014.

And while you're doing that have a read of this en.wikipedia.org/…/Argumentum_ad_populum… before you resort to "other people agree with me so I must be correct" again.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Juice is a great one for putting words into other people's mouths and likes to have the last word. This anon is bored with him now so will leave it to the rest to continue if they wish.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Even children are perfectly capable of knowing right from wrong.Its in fact not children but adults who are the skateboard vandals.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Why do middle aged Manchester polititician want to try and understand the kids?.Take a look in the mirror,your old. The best way for you to stop it,is if people your age started skateboarding in the city centre,the over 50s, you would rapidly make it uncool with the kids then.The site of Karney and Joan on a board would be a deterrent to kids skateboarding around the memorial.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
JoanSeptember 30th 2014.

Can you lend me yours?

AnonymousOctober 20th 2014.

www.jenkemmag.com/…/… what an antisocial c*nt

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

There were plenty of cops everyday to police the Palestinians protest on King St,at great expense,if GMP got of its arse and bothered to put the same effort into stopping the anti social activities of skateboarders it would soon stop.You don't see many skateboarders in The Trafford Centre either,which shows the uselessness of Manchester council in running the city centre.

9 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Because people were worried the King Street protests might kick off. Whilst the skateboarding upsets a lot of people, it's unlikely to result in someone being physically hurt, so I'm hardly astonished its not a police priority.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

The way this is going though, there will be blood and the police will have to step in. The cenotaph is a priority over multi-culties protesting against a cosmetic shop. Lots of Jews fought and died in the British armed forces during both wars. Perhaps the Kedem lot and their ilk would like to lend a hand here?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

But "The way it's going" has involved people politely asking them not to do it - not having a fist fight or anything.

AY CARAMBASeptember 30th 2014.

"You don't see many skateboarders in The Trafford Centre either,which shows the uselessness of Manchester council in running the city centre." HAHAHAHAHA are you serious? That comparison is the funniest thing I've read today. I bet there's not many skateboarders in your house, either. Perhaps you should be put in charge of keeping the city centre orderly?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

It's because private landowners like at the Trafford Centre are not afraid to enforce the rules,unlike the gut cowards at the council,who are scared to upset these kids

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

If the Kedem people returned the security favour by patrolling the cenotaph after work, would they be called The Manchester Evening Jews?

rinkydinkSeptember 30th 2014.

It was no favour, they needed protecting from those nutters. And your "joke" is crap

AY CARAMBASeptember 30th 2014.

Anon re Trafford Centre, are you taking the piss? What an absurd comparison. Do you not see that the TC management have much more power at their disposal that make it far far easier to prevent skateboarding? That is, the right to simply ask people to leave the centre, without giving reasons, if they want to - they don't have to 'enforce the rules', they can just exercise their power as the property owner. The council do not have that power. Skateboarding is not against the law and the city centre is a public place. Apart from imposing ASBOs or prosecuting people for damage, how do you actually think the council could prevent skateboarding?

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

@Rinkydink Nice to see you spelling 'favour' correctly.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Let's take the city back people and turn Piccadilly Gardens into a FEMA camp for the scrotes, not rights and workshy immigrants that are a blight on our streets.

DigsterSeptember 30th 2014.

Just seen the article in the MEN about the graffiti on the new benches. Such a shame.

AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Listen in people, it was me that spoke to the teenagers on Sunday night. There was no 'understanding' to be had. We both knew what they were doing was wrong but they still wanted to skateboard there. Part of the joy of skateboard culture is confrontation and short of force there was no stopping them. For a skateboarder it's a new area to 'play' on and the message was quite clear...it's FREE to skate there. Are you listening Manchester Council?

JoanSeptember 30th 2014.

There is to be a step up in security during key hours. Other initiatives under discussion.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousSeptember 30th 2014.

Key hours?

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

These "kids" are in their twenties. I have just been told to "mind your own fu**ing business" when I approached them. I was pleasant and non confrontational. I am a pensioner recovering from cancer, so I am not aggressive looking, in fact a little bit frail. If these "kids" won't listen, what is to be done?

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

If they were punched, who would they complain to?

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

It will be Rememberence Sunday next month.What a terrible image Manchester will project to the old boys who thought in the war,when they see the state of the war menmorial.Manchester council should be ashamed of themselves.If they cannot protect a war memorial from vandalism then they are a disgrace.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

They maybe be vandals but if they were punched they would go crying and complaining to mummy and daddy and mummy and daddy would go complaining to the police and courts. The only solution is for this piece of land to be sold for a £1 to the British Legion or military and then they can enforce how it's used by banning skateboarding and posting if necessary armed guards.The council will do nothing,about skateboarding,if the current situation is allowed to continue

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

How hard is it to create a public space that can't be used for skateboarding / bmx?

JoanOctober 1st 2014.

I was there at approx 1.20pm today, Wednesday. It was busy, with plenty of office workers and shoppers enjoying the October sunshine. There were also two library staff working outside the building talking to the public. I'm both surprised and disappointed to hear only 40 mins later skateboarders were present and the anonymous pensioner above was sworn at. I'd ask Anon to report this incident, either to me [cllr.j.davies@manchester.gov.uk] or to the police desk conveniently situated on Lloyd Street.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Joan you have a nerve wanting to issue a compulsory purchase order for the Fire Station,when you cannot even protect this memorial from vandalism.This council is a sad joke,with all the resources and money available,your not capable of protecting one war memorial.

5 Responses: Reply To This...
AY CARAMBAOctober 1st 2014.

Poor show Anon. A councillor is actively trying to address the problem and you bring up a completely unrelated issue as an unrelated pretext to have a go. They truly cannot win with people like you.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

If she wants to disassociate herself,she could choose to speak out against the leadership policy or she could resign.As she seems to do neither,she must accept collective responsibility.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Sounds like David.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

It IS the David troll. Unmistakable absence of logic.

AnonymousOctober 3rd 2014.

Nah, David can use spaces properly after punctuation.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

The fundamental issue is Sir Richard Lease’s obsession with the modernist architects of the world and pleasing them (and the RIBA bores). The current city is being designed by joyless wonks on CAD, sat in offices a million miles from where their bad architecture is to be located; with lame belief that 4yrs at uni gives them an innate insight into human behaviour. The basic flaws in the St, Peter’ Sq designs were there to see from the start except by all the MCC Planning Office and the nodding dogs on the Committee. Throw in his contempt of the people with Library Walk (and Piccadilly Gardens) and disrespect will naturally follow.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

There are numerous security guards employed within the town hall and library,is it not beyond the wit of the council to redeploy one or two of these,specifically to stand guard at the memorial.If they cannot skate there,they will find somewhere else to go.

Ghostly TomOctober 1st 2014.

In an alternate universe, if the Cenotaph had been relocated to Spinningfields, would it have been damaged?

5 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

more than likely. But Spinningfields, like the Trafford Centre is private land. As such security would be within their rights to kick any they please off their estate.

AnonymousOctober 1st 2014.

Why can't the cenotaph be made into private land?

AY CARAMBAOctober 1st 2014.

What difference do you think it would make if it was made into private land, Anon? Think it through.

Andy VoOctober 1st 2014.

Sell it to the Britannia Group for a small fortune. Wait for them to do fuck all with it for 18 months then buy it back for a pittance under a CPO. Refurb with the money made from initial sale.

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

At least the Brittania would manage to stop skateboarders destroying it.

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Well folks, as of 2.00pm this afternoon the council have barriered off the grass area an have two cleaners and a van removing the marks. I have to say they've done an excellent job and it looks as good as new. The thing is...now what?

2 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Clearly Manchester Confidential has some readers in the Labour leadership.Now what..deploy some of your security staff from the Town Hall and Library and give them a chair to sit next to the memorial.Once the skateboarders see that,they will go elsewhere.

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Have a sniper in the Town Hall.

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

What is the point of the curved walls? This is what happens when you over-design something.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Well it's been a rectangle for the last ninety years so this is more 'with it'.

rinkydinkOctober 2nd 2014.

Well there's a fence around the cenotaph now, I've just been past. That'll keep the pesky kids at bay

6 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Add some barbed wire and a trench

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Put a minefield around it

rinkydinkOctober 2nd 2014.

Round them up... and bomb the b*stards!!!

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

'Well there's a fence around the cenotaph now'. Which is what I said this afternoon! Come on Rinkydink...get with the program!

rinkydinkOctober 2nd 2014.

It's no good just saying it anon, you need to post it on here. If you did then I'm sorry but I'm not trawling through that lot above to check if I'm repeating somebody else. Becasuse... I don't care...!!!

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

@Rinkydink. We're all busy people though aren't we old bean?

rinkydinkOctober 2nd 2014.

Round them up... and bomb the b*stards!!!

3 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

Spoken like a true redneck ;)

rinkydinkOctober 2nd 2014.

Not only is my neck red, I have a deep purple face!! Raaaaaging!

AnonymousOctober 2nd 2014.

That wouldn't happen in DC would it, Rinkydink?

JoanOctober 3rd 2014.

Update: this was the first item at the Council's Executive meeting on Wednesday. There's extra security, the marks have been cleaned and anyone found causing 'criminal damage' will face prosecution. Interest has been expressed in a 'Friends' group. Many young people and skateboarders have stated their disgust at the behaviour of this small minority, and we will be engaging with these groups to support the positive messages they're sending.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousOctober 3rd 2014.

Thanks Joan

AnonymousOctober 3rd 2014.

You forgot to mention it's all completely fenced off. I've just seen the damage to the bench seat backs too. Such a disgrace.

AnonymousOctober 3rd 2014.

It also shows if the local media hold the council to account then they are forced to take action.Thats what local journalism should be about,putting your readers interests first,not the councils.Its also in the long term interests of Labour to be forced to listen to the people more,unless they want to end up like Scottish Labour.

AnonymousOctober 3rd 2014.

Mancheser needs a dedicated website for what's going on in the city eg. roadworks, traffic accidents [in real time] local hints and tips for getting around and shopping. Cheapest beers, travel delays etc. Posted by people on the ground out and about in the streets. A go-to site that is fresh and up to date.

AnonymousNovember 7th 2014.

It's fenced off again?!

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousNovember 7th 2014.

YES...and it's been cleaned again too. In advance of Rememberance Sunday in two days time. I'm sure the council don't want any skateboarders trashing it, especially in the first year of it's relocation.

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