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Waiting for Gordo

It’s National Vegetarian Week. Are vegetarians mad?

Published on May 21st 2009.

Waiting for Gordo
Yes: - 51%
No: - 49%

A country road. A tree. Evening.

A I don’t know how you can live without meat. It’s lush, juicy and bloody (geddit) good.

B Very funny. I don’t know how you can kill millions and millions of animals in all that blood and pain when there are alternatives to meat that are just as nutritious.

A I have a report from an eminent doctor which says that without meat in your diet, you are low in proteins and your brain doesn’t work so quickly.

B I have a report from an eminent doctor which says that without meat in our diets we are free of all the fat and salts that come with them, that we are mentally more agile.

A Yeah but you’re always tired and have low energy levels.

B What do you mean?

A Well you’re even following my statements all the time here.

B Well, here’s me leading. There are considerable benefits to being a vegetarian both in terms of physical well-being and morality too.

A So you’re a vegetarian on principle then?

B thinks about it.

B Principle, and also aesthetically. Meat in all its raw, visceral, gore makes me retch.

A What like ribs, loin, shoulder?

B Liver, kidneys, heart, tongue, brain, bone marrow....you suck the marrow from bones!

A Yum. Sweetmeats, sweetbreads, glands galore, cow heel, tripe, maw?

B You’re making me sick.

A I always think vegetarians are hippies, is that true? Of course I mean those who don’t have religious objections to meat-eating.

B I’m not a hippy. I suppose you could say that many vegetarians share a world view that would include sustainable economies, green politics, recycling and the like but that, by no means, is always the case.

Happy cows perform the joyous 'eat me' dance

A You should agree with sucking bone marrow then, as that means you're not wasting resources and you’re converting products that would otherwise go to waste.

B Nice try, yet all the cows with their methane are a major factor in global warming.

A That’s a lot of hot air. See, eating meat makes you funnier. There are no vegetarian comedians you know, that’s a fact. And Hitler was a vegetarian, which is interesting.

B That’s not interesting, it’s a coincidence. Apparently Pol Pot was a meat eater.

A I thought he was some tuppaware.

C runs on to the stage dragging a cod.

C I’m a vegetarian but I eat fish.

A&B You’re not a vegetarian then, fish don’t grow on trees. Go away.

C goes away.

B Stop me if you think you’ve heard this one before: ‘This beautiful creature must die, a death for no reason, and death for no reason is murder’.

A That’s not necessarily true, Morrissey was muddle-headed there, but how about this one. ‘Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of rye, four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie’. And then sautéed, baked and grilled. Then munched.

The argument goes on forever.

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98 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

Jonathan SchofieldMay 21st 2009.

Folks - by popular demand, here's a vote for you.

east lancsMay 21st 2009.

There's no doubt that being veggie is healthier, ethically sound, and environmentally friendly. But I just like meat, sorry. I'm a selfish, cruel, obese flesh fetishist. And I'm entirely unapologetic... funny really considering I was veggie for 8 years.

JMay 21st 2009.

Don't forget you are a paedophile as well East Lancs...so some weird vege said...

east lancsMay 21st 2009.

Dearest Decartes, you are entirely incorrect I'm afraid. Google "vegetarian myths". I'm a massive meat guzzler btw. I love it. Hmmm.

JennMay 21st 2009.


grumpy lentilMay 21st 2009.

Hitler was NOT a vegetarian. its another omni propogated myth about veggies and it really annoys me

Veggie YankMay 21st 2009.

I ate meat for 15 years - then dabbled between vegan/veggie since then. It was the best lifestyle choice I have ever made - and I'm so happy that I can see clearly now and not live in a deranged world where I think it's okay to eat flesh as long as I didn't see it die. We should all take National Vegetarian Week as a time to reflect about what we put in our bodies - try vegetarianism for just one week and see how you like it, see how easy it is, see how you feel - then make your decisions about veggies. Don't knock it till you try it! I hate when people are horrible and judge me b.c of my diet, you wouldn't be horrible to someone one who is muslim or kosher for their diet, so why hate on veggies?

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Veggie Yank, if you want to talk about being horrible and judgemental, see some of the comments on the Greens restaurant review by veggies....

Dr BraisingsteakMay 21st 2009.

To be fair, we've had Salmonela, Foot & Mouth, BSE, Swine Flu, Bird Flu... You're not going to die from Spudpox...

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Descartes, you have no clue what you're talking about. At least get a basic knowledge of nutrition before you say things like that.I think you'll find the only vitamin vegetarians miss out from meat is B12. If you're vegetarian you can get plenty of this in dairy products and marmite. There's no running to Holland & Barrett to buy dried seaweed or ordering dodgy pills from some site in America, you just eat what your normally would.Your 'more gaunt than meat-eaters' is funny as f**k. I'm 15 stone and 6ft 2 and I haven't eaten meat for almost five years!

Veggie YankMay 21st 2009.

@anon yeah I saw it and i think my rant relfected the anger I was feeling about that story too :( people need to just chill out and not get so wound up by other ppls lifestlyes.

in car waiting for the rain to stop before shooting dinnerMay 21st 2009.

If its a moral thing, I take it no veggies shop in primark, h and m etc due to exploitation of child labour. That's cruel isn't it?! And I hope you've never drank bottled water, had leather shoes, drove a car, used paper etc etc as you wouldn't want to harm the natural habitat of species would you?

NickyLMay 21st 2009.

Descartes is obviously living proof that meat addles your brain. A vegetarian diet has been scientifically proven to reduce the risk of heart disease and cancer, not to mention a whole host of other things such as arthritis. A balanced vegetarian or vegan diet contains everything the human body needs. Humans are not designed to eat meat, we are not natural carnivores.

emma graceMay 21st 2009.

I'm not anti-veggie at all, in fact I rarely eat meat, just because I forget about it. Personally I'm a fish person. But I think the leather argument is a fair one....you can't stand there saying meat is murder, if you've got a leather sofa, shoes, etc etc etc.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

wow, 15 stone and 6ft 2 on veg alone? Must be your glands eh

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

unless you buy second hand - recycle and reuse! That way, no new animals are slaughtered for leather

Breaking NewsMay 21st 2009.

Emma Grace is a Fish Person! Living among us, masquerading as a human, this gilléd girlie has been fooling us for years!

rain nearly stopped but still waiting in carMay 21st 2009.

Why are these veggies so bloody nasty? Why be so petulant about what descartes said?He is entitled to his viewpoint and put it well! Get that chip off your shoulder, dip it in some blood freshly oozed from a steak and you'll feel much better. And less confrontational.

gravyboyMay 21st 2009.

How are the vegies finding the strength to push the heavey keys on the keyboard with their pethetic fingers, in order to respond to thisartical? Porobably got a friend to do it.....do vegetarian's have friends?

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Last 2 posts demonstrate how pathetic meat eaters are - why do you feel so threatened by people who choose not to eat dead animals? Maybe eating less meat would turn you into nicer and more intelligent people.

gravyboyMay 21st 2009.

maybe eating meat would stop you moaning

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Ha ha ha - ohhhh how funny, how amusing.....that last comment must have really taxed your solitary braincell.

gravyboyMay 21st 2009.

relax don't get excited you need to save your strength....you must be exhausted as it is

getting out of carMay 21st 2009.

See veggies being abusive again! We joke they get abusive. Calm down and answer the moral questions. If its ok to get leather goods secondhand, is it ok to eat meat leftovers? Or asda whoopsies?

JoMay 21st 2009.

It must be a hard question to answer (the one about wearing leather). Just remember - no one is perfect, we are all guilty of doing something others find wrong. I think the thing that gets on my nerve is the self righteous attitude that most veggies have towards us meat eaters, they probably do wear leather shoes etc....would not surprise me at all!

DigMay 21st 2009.

I always thought it was ok to kill animals. Why else would they be made out of leather and meat? Personally I've never killed an animal but a friend did punch a donkey once.

ThebirdisthewordMay 21st 2009.

Is it really such a big deal if someone chooses to eat meat or not? It’s a personal choice. I've been vegetarian for 15 years and I’m sick to death of hearing meat-eaters tell me that I’d be healthier if I ate a steak. It’s just downright rude. Likewise, I can't stand a self-righteous vegetarian. I've never preached to anyone about what they should or shouldn’t eat because quite frankly its none of my business. Vegetarian or not, if you’re the type of person who tries to force your opinions on other people, you really should just bugger off and find something better to do.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

@getting out of the car you are an idot - eating someone elses leftovers can not be compared to buying second hand clothing.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

The inconsistency in some veggies' lifestyles (viz wearing/owning leather goods) particularly those who "preach" to us about our (meat) diet choices is irritating. I don't mind that they choose not to eat meat or indeed anything else they don't fancy but I do mind being preached at on my choices. If you are a veggie, quietly choose something veggie on the menu - just don't make such a song and dance about it. If the restaurant (or host) offers nothing suitable, leave or go hungry.

Jammy DodgerMay 21st 2009.

Thebird, couldn't agree more. Eat or don't eat what you like, but also let everyone else eat what they like without lectures! There are no right or wrong answers, just whatever is right for you. Live and let live, I say (and get drunk...it's a bank holiday people!).

ThebirdisthewordMay 21st 2009.

I agree that inconsistency is highly annoying, particularly of 'preachy' veggies. I'm a vegetarian who wears leather shoes, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever and is totally hypocritical of me. So, other than this rant, I just keep quiet about not liking meat but really liking shoes...

Have You Heard?May 21st 2009.

Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow Mow Mow Mow-Mow-Ma-Mow!

The Grand WalloperMay 21st 2009.

I am the weird vegetarian who likened meat eating to other unspeakable crimes such as paedophilia, and the fact that meat eaters see this as disproportionate simply shows how far removed from reality meat eaters have to be in order for them to collaborate in the slaughter of millions of beautiful, intelligent, innocent animals, with all that blood and guts spilled just so as you can enjoy a trivial taste in your mouth. A debate about the nutritional value of meat does of course exist, but since many vegetarians live to healthy ripe old ages, it is clear that it is easily possible to live without meat.Many points have been raised in the debate about meat eating, but only one of them is interesting - the cruelty pain and suffering inflicted on animals, all else is peripheral. It is clear that every forkful of meat is paid for by pain and suffering, and all the infantile rationalisations of meat eaters will never change this fact. The meat industry means cruelty and suffering on a scale far larger than any meat eater is capable of imagining, for once it is imagined, it is surely impossible for anyone but a sadist to eat meat again.But of course, meat eaters are free to choose, and when it comes down to it, stripped of all the fancy language, all the sophisticated dressing, you choose an insignificant sensual experience over the hideous untold suffering of vast numbers of animals. So I beg you to look into your hearts, where you will see that this equation does not, and will not ever balance.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Walloper, should lions, tigers and a whole lot more look into their hearts as well LOL - how pathetic are you! Cruelty to animals will never be wiped out as there is something called the FOOD CHAIN!!!!

TommyMay 21st 2009.

Daddy! Daddy! The vegetarians are abusing me again! Hahahaha. Seriously though people - Thebirdistheword has it right: some people eat meat, some don't and both choices will provide you with the nutrients we all need. Now stop being so bloody childish.

The Grand WalloperMay 21st 2009.

If anonymous took the time to read my rant, he'd see that I was talking about the INDUSTRIAL slaughter by humanity of millions of animals, not wild predation. And to the unwelcome voice of unreason I did not say that animals were as intelligent as human, simply that they were intelligent, which is indisputable. And Tommy doesn't even address the key point about suffering. Please criticise what I said, not what your prejudices think I said. Try Again.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Walloper, so you can happily watch an animal get savaged by a lion and think 'hey, hope that lion enjoyed his feast'!! I really don't care what you eat (or don't eat) and I just expect the same...

ChickMay 21st 2009.

The Grand Walloper says, "It is clear that every forkful of meat is paid for by pain and suffering". No it is not. I choose to use a butcher who takes great pride in knowing the provenance of virtually all the meat he supplies. He insists on the ethical rearing and slaughtering of animals and will not currently supply veal as he cannot find a farmer in the North West that fulfils his requirements. A quick bullet to the head is not pain and suffering. A diet of rice in Ethiopia is

Unreasonable ReductionMay 21st 2009.

Ah the old "pain and suffering" line... damn, might have to give up the white stuff!

The Grand WalloperMay 21st 2009.

Chick, it saddens me beyond words that you think a bullet to the head does not constitute pain and suffering. And if you want to get onto world hunger, it is obvious that meat produces far lower yield per acre than vegetable matter does.

RachelMay 21st 2009.

It doesn't matter what you think about the idea of killing animals to eat them. People should however consider the impacts of the western diet being so meat & dairy heavy.Not only do rich westerners eat 3x the WHO recommended healthy amounts, they contribute to massive climate change via land change (chopping down the rainforest to grow soy to feed intensively farmed livestock), transportation etc. Many more people could be bed from the same land area if everyone ate fruit/veg/grain rather than meat & dairy. The planet simply cannot produce enough for everyone to 'enjoy' such a diet as many people here are used to - so stop being so selfish and cut down. Everyone could do with realising that a few meat free meals a week is a good thing for everyone, we need more restaurants with more meat free options to start discouraging people form thinking you cant have a meal without meat. I'm not even a veggie btw - but i eat meat v rarely and only form local, organic farms, sustainably produced

BoredofitallMay 21st 2009.

BORING, new topic please

ChickMay 21st 2009.

Walloper; get a grip - it takes less than a second for a cow to die when shot in the head correctly - no pain, no suffering - end of. I was not bringing world hunger into the discussion, merely trying to reinforce said comment. Do you suggest that everyone becomes vegetarian and all available land is given over to producing vegetable crops?

The Grand WalloperMay 21st 2009.

Mr Grandee should do a course on philosophy and find out what the is/ought distinction is. There are no ethical facts, but there are such things as rhetoric and impassioned reasoning.

RachelMay 21st 2009.

not everyone should be veggie completely but only eat the meat that can be sustainably produced. No problem with the idea of going out and hunting dinner if required but the whole industry and how people expect meat to be available to eat everyday should be re-assessed.How do you get paragraph breaks to stay in posts??

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Rachel, why not hand out meat ration books...

Katrina ShepherdMay 21st 2009.

Animal products are unsustainable. Everything would be much easier if we were all vegan.

DigMay 21st 2009.

The food chain would cease to exist without plants. In conclusion, eat animals, not plants.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Is there really any point of living at all if you had to be a vegan...by all means if that is what you want for yourself but don't push it onto others and please, don't expect to be a dinner guest at my house...

east lancsMay 21st 2009.

That argument actually motivates me more than any other. I don't recall the figures, but basically; for the amount of feed and effort required to bring a cow to market to feed 100 people, you could feed 10,000 veggies with the same input.

Katrina ShepherdMay 21st 2009.

You won't be having dinner parties in a few years anon, if we don't curtail our co2 emissions, of which livestock emissions are one of the major causes.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Hmmm, the good old co2 emissions arguement at last...is this when we'll all be driving horse and carts etc.

Katrina ShepherdMay 21st 2009.

yes, let's just be flippant about co2 shall we. It's not like it's a big problem. Maybe if we ignore it , it will go away.

DescartesMay 21st 2009.

Maybe it will. Ignoring the problem worked with the hole in the ozone layer.

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

Not really being flippant about it, but hey, your comment about the dinner parties is just that little bit over the top so my comment probably just levels it out...

exasperatedMay 21st 2009.

Rachel -- I think you're comment is exactly right. The key point that will mean that we will all have to eat less meat is the environmental one (which is entirely different from the nutrition, cost or animal welfare factors). As the effects of climate change kick in there will be less food growing land available. So how we share it is going to be critical. In any event, as we are a long way from food self-sufficiency in the UK, there will be many more veggies here over the next 40 odd years. Do people wish to be proactive or reactive in rebalancing there diet? What d'you say commenters?

AnonymousMay 21st 2009.

I say you've already posted that comment on the other story, do you like repeating yourself or are you just trying to bang it into people?

exasperatedMay 22nd 2009.

Anonymous, what do you thing the cows eat?

voice of reasonMay 22nd 2009.

Has anonymous got mad cow disease?

Katrina ShepherdMay 22nd 2009.

Anonymous, the cows eat soya protein grown in the Amazon at massive cost to biodiversity and tribes.

east lancsMay 22nd 2009.

It's getting kind of hard to follow which outpouring of idiocy is the work of which anonymous coward...

DescartesMay 22nd 2009.

Katrina, would that be the same soya that goes into Alpro and other veggie foods? I wonder how much damage 'healthy eating habits' such as vegetarianism actually does to the planet?

Katrina ShepherdMay 22nd 2009.

Nope, the soya for Alpro comes from Europe.

DigMay 22nd 2009.

Aah the old Co2 nugget. We all know plants need Co2 to photosynthesise. In conclusion, eat animals, but not too many that the lack of farting animals leaves plants choking for a breathe of fresh Co2.

GregMay 22nd 2009.

Oh gravyboy, such weak trolling. Somebody respond to him before his Mum unplugs his broadband please.

AnonymousMay 22nd 2009.

East lancs, how do you grow a cow?

east lancsMay 22nd 2009.

Anonymous coward, you know exactly what I mean. If you want to get into the semantics we can. But I'm right.

AnonymousMay 22nd 2009.

I find it funny how you call me a coward when you use a ridiculous name for yourself!! ha ha!Or are you really called that?

JimMay 22nd 2009.

I tried to get my cat to go veggie once but she just wasn't having it. Given the choice between a carrot and a little bird (which was also from the garden) she went for the bird every time. Left the carrot well alone, I think that says a lot!

emma graceMay 22nd 2009.

Jesus.........everyones gone mad! Speaking of Jesus, was he a veggie??

ChickMay 22nd 2009.

I like this debate. Two things; there simply is not enough suitable land in the world for everyone to live off a vegetarian diet, never mind vegan. Also, cats cannot survive on a veggie diet - dogs can, cats can't. Next

exasperatedMay 22nd 2009.

the amazonian soya tends to be GM and is fed to cows. the european soya fed to veggies is not GM.

east lancsMay 22nd 2009.

Anon, you are mistaken. Humans do not "NEED" meat in their diet. At all. Wish people would recognise this basic fact.

AnonymousMay 22nd 2009.

Hmm so cats can't go veggie eh. Doesn't that make veggie cat owners a bit hypocritical - being that pet foods tend to be lower quality meat that's not been reared in top notch conditions?

ChickMay 22nd 2009.

pet food tends to be lower quality meat? Have you not eaten a pouch of Whiskers Oh So Meaty recently?

RachelMay 22nd 2009.

Chick - did you type that wrong are could you be so wrong?? It is simply the other way around - the world cannot produce enough grain to feed the animals to feed the people - it could feed all the people on veg and grain alone etc.Soy can feed many more people than the animals fed the soy can feed- so we wouldn't need to cut down rainforest to grow so much if it wasn't for intensive farming. People would have enough to eat. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Mr FactMay 22nd 2009.

It's not just cats that aren't vegetarians it's that llamas are reluctant vegetarians. They hate veggie food but can't be bothered running and hunting since the accident. They like blue cheese too. But despair of crisps.

Mr TurthMay 22nd 2009.

Sharks can't stand toast.

ChickMay 22nd 2009.

Rachel - did you type that wrong(ly) or could you be so patronising. People may have enough to eat in your ideal world - truth is, the Western world likes meat and continues to eat it. Now, where did I put that foie gras.........

AnonymousMay 22nd 2009.

Chick, patronising is the word...I wonder if Rachel wears leather shoes??

DigMay 22nd 2009.

Do vegetarian cannibals eat only eat Swedes?

DigMay 22nd 2009.

Ooops, ruined that joke didn't I?

Captain QualityMay 22nd 2009.

It's sad that meat-eaters think this way. By the way, i'm not preaching because I'm not asking you to change your diet, I'm just stating facts. I understand why people eat meat, and why I used to - it's traditional. That's all there is to it. Humans have been doing it for millions of years. Thing is though, humans used to go out and hunt millions of years ago. Humans weren't aware that there were other ways to live millions of years ago, so that was fine. Now we don't really have many excuses. To all the meat-eaters with pets - congrats, you're all hypocrites. You can't care for one type of animal and not others. Eat your cat. I have no problem with people eating meat- if they go out and kill it themselves. If you can shoot an animal in the head and be fine with it, fair enough. But you can't, because you'd be too nervous, hesitant and basically weak-minded. If you can't do something yourself, don't get someone else to do it out of sight.

AnonymousMay 22nd 2009.

I actually LIKE meat..end of!

east lancsMay 22nd 2009.

Cpt Q, you're right of course (although we're talking 10s of thousands, not millions). I'm wth you on the killing-eating thing. Hence why I keep bothering my dad to take me fishing one morning so I can catch and gut and cook breakfast.

The Grand WalloperMay 22nd 2009.

The essence of refraining from meat eating is simply this, compassion. You've either got it or you haven't.

Phoenix80TMay 22nd 2009.

I can't believe that even on this matter there's an argument and 'war' between humanity. Why don't we all choose our own lifestyle without bothering what our neighbour does??? Who ever wants to be a veggie can be a veggie(without patronizing people that eat meat). Personally i am a meat-fish-veg lover. My diet is balanced and based on the mediterranean diet. No one can tell me what to eat. If i want to eat a whole cow i can eat it. Cows do not contribute to global warming and im a scientist. Think of the two cars you have and you use them all the time. Homo Sapiens was chasing animals and cultivating veggies to feed. So thats what Nature inteded for us to eat! Who ever feels healthy to eat veggies ...there you go...eat them but please spare the lecture.

DigMay 22nd 2009.

Do you make your own clothes Captain Quality or are you happy for 8 year old kids in Chinese sweat shops to do that for you? If any human had a choice between death or killing an animal then the choice is simple. Fact is it's 2009 and we don't have to make that choice. Behind a lot of your modern day conveniences manufactured in the far east there will be people who suffered for it. Do you think of those humans when you put your socks on in the morning or turn your tv on?

TrevorMay 22nd 2009.

Dig, I think of those kids putting on my socks. Then to cheer myself up I go and have a bacon sandwich. An then I think of the animals. And then I go back to bed because it's all so very difficult.

GargantuangulletMay 22nd 2009.

Get your lips around my sausage, you won't be sorry.

JMay 22nd 2009.

Is that a Linda McCartney sausage?

JimmyMay 22nd 2009.

Who here likes fishsticks?

GargantuangulletMay 22nd 2009.

That's what I tell them, yes.

castlefield in walesMay 22nd 2009.

Descartes and chick, I'm with you! These veggies are so full of ****! They can have leather, wear cheap imported clothes, drive etcetc and yet lecture us for eating meat that is grown specifically for that! Who are you trying so hard to convince veggies? By the way on my trip I've got a little house in a little village that survives by farming meat, do veggies think it would be better for them all to drive to call centres?

shiveringgoatMay 22nd 2009.


RachelMay 22nd 2009.

I care not if you find me patronising when I'm just stating facts that the western diet is unsustainable. Not my fault that so many people are so selfish and inconsiderate with their lifestyles.Please dont assume that whinging veggies do wear leather, drive, buy clothes produced with child labour? I take care in all the things I do, I do not buy many things (wasteful consumerism), have no car. I take care what I do buy and get 2nd hand where possible.I do have some leather shoes in fact but why not? Making use of a by-product that will last many years, not just the duration of a meal.And you will find I never actually said I was vegetarian - I am not, but eat meat & dairy only rarely and when from local/sustainable sources. I have simply pointed out people really should eat less (and better) meat and dairy. Which is true.

AnonymousMay 22nd 2009.

oh rachel rachel, so what are you patronising us for? You know nothing of what I and other posters do, eat, wear etc. etc. Please go and patronise someone else!

Meat eaterMay 22nd 2009.

If anyone does not feed their cat a diet which is primarily meat-based they should be reported to the RSPCA.Rachel - one of the things about a "western diet" is that it involves providing employment and hope to people in the third world. Fair trade is still a pretty new concept, but it's getting bigger and bigger every year and forcing big corporations to reassess their policies towards sourcing their goods. If we only use locally sourced produce, the third world dies. Walloper - vegetarians do not have a monopoly on compassion. Hitler may not have been a vegetarian, but Mother Teresa certainly ate meat.

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